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classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
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Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
I just got my first request for a 20th fret. If you have fretboard end treatments with 20th frets that you are really happy with, I'd be glad to see pictures.
Thanks everyone.
Author:  Eric Reid [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
Jim--I can't post photos at the moment, but I think I can describe what I like to see, and why.

Of course, you could be unconventional, and just move the soundhole down a fret. That might look okay, but it would probably confuse some players.

If I assume that the 20th fret will project into the soundhole area, there are some practical considerations, and some aesthetic judgements involved. As a repairman with largish hands, I'll mention that I never enjoy fishing around inside a guitar with a 20th fret. My hand fits, but barely. I guess I'm saying that keeping the extension to a minimum has its points. The extension itself has its points, and that's the problem.

It's customary to leave enough fretboard wood beyond the 20th fret to support the fret slot. That certainly makes it easier to keep things from falling apart, and dropping into the soundhole. I think it looks best if that extra wood is exactly the distance to the back edge of a hypothetical 21st fret. This contradicts my desires as a repairman, but when I'm building, I sometimes overrule the repairman.

I don't like to see fretboard that ought to have a fret, and doesn't. That means the corner of the fretboard on the bass side has to come to a point before the back edge of the projected 20th fret--ideally, at the projected back edge.

You're left with deciding how to blend the extension into the sound hole. I like the curvature to seem like a natural spiraling in of the soundhole--tangent where it takes off, and tightening gradually as it moves in. Only the first string needs a 20th fret, so a cm width at the fret is enough. Square the end at the "21st" fret, or you'll end up with fretboard that needs a fret.
Author:  nyazzip [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
Quote:
As a repairman with largish hands, I'll mention that I never enjoy fishing around inside a guitar with a 20th fret.


it struck me recently that this factor, rather than audio considerations, is maybe why the soundhole on most guitars today is what it is- the smallest hole that the average male adult human can stuff a partial forearm in to....
that conclusion is probably out there in a popular book somewhere but i was rather proud of myself for thinking of it independently
:D [clap]
Author:  Steven Odut [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
This is my guitar - based on the Bogdanovich plans, where the 20th fret lies on an ogee extended into the soundhole.

Image
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
I have used this treatment on all of my guitars since #2. Works for me.

Attachment:
P1070721(Medium).JPG
Author:  Steven Odut [ Sun Dec 01, 2013 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
Eric Reid wrote:

I don't like to see fretboard that ought to have a fret, and doesn't. That means the corner of the fretboard on the bass side has to come to a point before the back edge of the projected 20th fret--ideally, at the projected back edge.

You're left with deciding how to blend the extension into the sound hole. I like the curvature to seem like a natural spiraling in of the soundhole--tangent where it takes off, and tightening gradually as it moves in. Only the first string needs a 20th fret, so a cm width at the fret is enough. Square the end at the "21st" fret, or you'll end up with fretboard that needs a fret.


You can see that my fretboard goes against a few of Eric's comments. I think I agree with him that the tip of the fretboard should have terminated where the 21st fret would have been. You can also not that I filled in the fret slot on the base side because I didn't want that bit to break off.
Author:  MaxBishop [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
Here's one I like by Stephen Connor.
Attachment:
Connor 2.jpg
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 2:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
Thanks everyone, it's nice to see some variations.

Steven, your 19th fret looks like it is pretty far north of the soundhole. Is that just an illusion? Would it be split if you had cut off the fingerboard at the soundhole edge?

Waddy, yours looks least intrusive and dangerous to the repairman (or someone trying to place or retrieve a bridge caul).
Author:  Steven Odut [ Mon Dec 02, 2013 4:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
Jim Kirby wrote:
Steven, your 19th fret looks like it is pretty far north of the soundhole. Is that just an illusion? Would it be split if you had cut off the fingerboard at the soundhole edge?


The soundhole is 153.5 mm below the neck joint, and the opening is 42 mm radius, so the soundhole edge is 111.5 mm below the neck joint . The 19th fret is 109 mm below the neck joint, so no the 19th fret would not be split if I had cut the fingerboard off at the soundhole edge, but is darn close - perhaps too close to try it.
Author:  Mike Collins [ Thu Dec 05, 2013 9:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: classical builders - 20th fret treatment?
On my opening web page at the bottom of that page
is a 20 fret guitar for Steve Miller.
Mike
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