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Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41924 |
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Author: | Steven Bollman [ Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? I've read that it can be done both ways, but is one better than the other? |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:12 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Do you mean which do you glue to the rims first? I do the top so that I can carve braces when it's a drum. |
Author: | Steven Bollman [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:20 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Yes, that's what I meant. Sorry I wasn't more clear. So, you do a bit of tapping after it's mounted to the rims? |
Author: | meddlingfool [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 12:25 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Almost all of it.... |
Author: | DennisK [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 2:38 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Top first. I do most of the brace carving as a free plate so I can flex it with my fingers and feel the stiffness, but then finetune the brace ends after the perimeter is constrained... and often end up shaving quite a bit more off the middle as well, if it sounds too tight even after shaving the ends. I tune the back to couple with the soundboard by tap tone as well, spool clamping it on and tapping, then taking it off and shaving braces. But that works best if you can glue the bridge before gluing the back, because it makes a big difference in the top's tap. But the mass of the spool clamps also makes the box tap a lot lower pitched than it will be, so it's still not an exact representation. Seems to result in pretty good coupling once it's all finished up, though. |
Author: | Tom West [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:24 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
It's done both ways as you know, each with it's own advantages. I do the top first, mostly because I learned to do it that way. Excellent guitars are generated both ways. Tom |
Author: | Trevor Gore [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 4:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
I've never been able to make much of free plate tuning (and I've tried...) and so do things a different way, which is necessary, anyway, when using CF as I do. So I do the back first, which has the side benefit of making glue clean up easier. But the main reason is that using the construction method I use, putting the back on first means I can dry fit the top to get exactly the neck angle I want (projection of the tangent to the upper bout over the saddle position) before I lock it all in, more easily than if I put the back on last. |
Author: | Goodin [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 8:50 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Back first for the same reasons Trevor outlined above. A correct neck angle trumps everything. |
Author: | Beth Mayer [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:10 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
So Gil and Tevor, you're adjusting the box to achieve a specific angle on the neck verses the opposite. (I've got the Book, but still on the Design one)? |
Author: | Goodin [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:33 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Yes Beth. I sand the top edge of the sides above the sound hole on a sanding board until I get the right amount of space above the saddle while running a straight edge held down on the center line above the sound hole. For me that's about 3/32". So the process involves a bit of trial and error...but you do some sanding then put the top on dry and held in place with go bars or whatever then measure, then repeat until the correct amount of space is achieved above the saddle. Then glue the top on. The angle of the top and sides where the neck joint will be is then transferred to the neck billet to achieve a flat plane down the neck. This method works for me. |
Author: | Trevor Gore [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:53 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
What Gil said. The top has to be right, too, of course, but a tiny tilt of the headblock (of the type I use) can throw the projection of the tangent off enough to spoil your day. So it's good to have the rim set + back locked in the mould and then you can fiddle with whatever until you get the dry fit right, with a high degree of certainty that things won't change when you glue up. |
Author: | the Padma [ Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:03 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Well Steve...it don't really matter as me joint and glue up a whole pile of backs and tops and use em as me needs them. Now as far as assembly goes...me assemble the ribs first, then the heal and tail blocks and then the lining, and so on. Me hope this was helpful to you. ![]() |
Author: | Steven Bollman [ Fri Nov 15, 2013 1:33 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Todd Stock wrote: Back first - usual followed with top about 30 minutes later...just enough time for the HHG to set up a bit and allows easy cleanup. With the outside mold building method I use, the neck angle is set directly with the neck, so no overt advantage to top or back first, beyond the already mentioned glue removal. I seldom tweak bracing beyond some light scraper work once the box closes, preferring to selectively thin the top of the assembled box based on compliance testing, so no real advantage there for me. As mentioned, folks that set or fine tune neck angle by adjusting body shape (e.g., most building board methods, etc.) and those that either voice with the top on and back off, or fine tune in the same config, have excellent reasons to stick with getting the top on first. So...if following a particular text or video building methodology, there is usually a reason for the order of build...and it's seldom based on the whim or fiat of the author. With enough in the way of building experience to understand when things can be changed up, departing from the order of build is a necessary step in optimizing the process for the individual - doing it prior to gaining insight as to why the author suggested a particular order is just an unnecessary complication. Finally - unless the squeeze out is really bad, usually not a big deal to knock off the little bits of squeeze-out after closing the box - and if building in the Gibson canonical style, glue squeeze out is pretty much expected ![]() Thanks, Todd! I'm sure I'm making it unnecessarily complicated! My plans were lacking some critical info regarding top/back radius, so my top plane/heel block area is still needing some consideration. I think I have it figured out. What do you mean by, "the Gibson canonical style?" |
Author: | crich [ Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:23 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
Top first. However, I depend on my work board to set my neck angle. And I use tentallones on my top. Clinton |
Author: | soma_hero [ Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:12 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Which do you assemble first…the top or the back? |
For you guys that adjust the soundboard before gluing on in order to fine tune the neck angle: are you still sanding the top rim with a sanding dish? I was reading on the KMG site today and what he's saying about keeping the top rim flat makes sense but I feel like every build I see on forums, people are radiusing the entire top, including the neck and tail blocks. Mike |
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