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Reversed lining tips and techniques?
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41840		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Rob Flindall [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Reversed lining tips and techniques?
Hi guys, I have been making my own reversed lining for my guitars as I like the visual appeal of the reversed lining versus the traditional lining. I was wondering if anyone can offer up some tips on installing reversed lining, specifically on the back side of the rim. Installing the lining on the soundboard side presents no issues as I'm only dealing with the shape of the guitar, but on the back side of the guitar, it's a compound curve - the shape of the guitar as well as the dome of the back. Here's my process so far : I wet and heat each lining piece flat, and then clothes pin it to the outside of the rim to help shape the lining before installation. Once that is dry, I cut it to fit and then glue a solid length of lining in place. As it's a compound curve, it imparts a twist in the length as I get it to go around both curves. What this causes, is the teeth of the lining to pull away from some parts of the rim. I've been using strong spring clamps to combat this, but it never quite works out perfect as you can see in my photos below. There is still good adhesion for the teeth that appear unattached, but it looks god-awful ugly in my opinion. I don't really want to cut my full length lining, creating two pieces, so I'm curious what everyone else here does to avoid this?

Thanks for any help folks!
Rob

Image

Image
Author:  Josh H [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
I used to use reverse linings in all my guitars. I know you said you want to install it as one piece, but I found cutting it into a few pieces and then fitting the joints really cleanly gave me a better install than trying to use it in one piece. I also found that using stronger clamps helped. I bought a bunch of 1" C clamps and alternated between the C clamps and spring clamps in the areas where the curves are more pronounced. Upper bought, and waist for example. I found this helped a lot.

I ultimately solved this issue by switching to Kevin Ryan's A4 kerfing. It is more expensive than other lining material, but more than pays for itself in the installation time that is saved. It also looks really cool. I will never go back.

Josh
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
Hi Rob,

I also cut them in several pieces, all spaced by the side reinforcement braces that go all the way on the entire side width, as shown in the picture. Takes me about 10 minutes per lining to install.

Attachment:
32- Kerfed linings being glued.jpg
Author:  johnparchem [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
Alain,

I am sold on your method, it looks easier to fit both the kerfed linings and the side reinforcement. One question I have is when you break the linings do you lose the rim rigidity that the reverse linings add. I do not think it makes any difference once the top and back are glued, but it does make the rims easier to work with on a Solara.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
johnparchem wrote:
One question I have is when you break the linings do you lose the rim rigidity that the reverse linings add.


I don't think it's significant enough. That said, it would be easy to glue some veneer on every lining junction, which would give you the lost rigidity back. For myself I don't bother since I'm more concerned with crossgrain stiffness. This is why my lining are so tall. And since there is a brace wherever the linings are broken, I don't believe crossgrain stiffness is reduced.
Author:  Hesh [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
Getting one of those long, plastic bins at home improvement stores for wetting wall paper permits us to soak the reverse kerf linings in very hot water for about a minute prior to padding dry and installing. The benefit is increased flexibility in two dimensions with less possibility of breakage and less resistance to less than ideal clamping pressure. Although a cut or two, not all the way through but just some relief may still be needed for some body shapes far less fitting is required as the damp, warm linings bend more readily and snug up to their mating surfaces more easily.

Attribution for the idea goes to Lance who told me about it.
Author:  Alain Moisan [ Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
Todd Stock wrote:
FWIW, a Fox bender works fine for bending if you milled things a bit on the stout side.


Forgot to mention that I bend my linings before installing them! oops_sign
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
I wet them and bend them on the pipe and clamp them in place while they cool. Heavier spring clamps for the most part and some clothespins with lots of rubber bands in places. Seems to work pretty well.
Author:  Tom West [ Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Reversed lining tips and techniques?
Rob: Wider linings help for this. Then let a bit more hang out at the heel block and slope it down a touch so that as it passes the high point at the waist it just protrudes. It will start to rise a bit as you finish in the lower bout. Do a dry run to get the feel, it seems to work for me. Am doing three guitars and the lining I cut was a bit stiff(last bunch for guitars built last year were a bit loose and sloppy)so I tried them in the bender and it worked like a charm. Thanks to Todd S. The thing I really like about reversed linings is how tidy they look and no blow outs when inletting braces. I think Wayne Henderson has been known to glue mahogany chips into any gaps between lining and sides.
Tom
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