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Inlaying Script Logo
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41584		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  George L [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Inlaying Script Logo
Anyone have any tips on doing the inlay for a script logo? I have a jeweler's saw, various blades, MOP blanks and a scripted rendition of my name. I also have Larry Robinson's DVD set and it all looks very reasonable and doable on screen. In practice, I am not making much headway. How do you guys do it? Any tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

George :-)

P.S. Right now my scripted logo has lines that are 1/16" at the narrowest. Maybe that's too thin?
Author:  cphanna [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 5:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Hi, George,
I can't offer sage advice, because I am pretty much in your shoes. What I can tell you is that, for me, sawing and filing the MOP was lots easier than routing precise inlays. No doubt, you are experiencing the same. I went to my dentist and asked for used dental burrs. When they are no longer good enough for his purposes, they are still plenty good for mine. He gave me a variety of burrs, which he sterilized for me, including straight sided and slope sided for a slight undercut. Beyond that, it has been a matter of practice for me. Also, I experimented with lots of gap-filling combinations of various wood dusts and epoxy, because I still haven't perfected my technique to the point of dispensing with gap filling. That part is tricky.
Well, if you're inlaying into something like ebony, it's easy. But with other, more brown woods, then it's more tricky. You've got to remember that your wood dust/epoxy fill will be darker than the surrounding wood, so you need to choose wood dust that is a little lighter than what you are trying to fill. In my case, I was inlaying into a crotch figured walnut headplate, and also into a rosewood fingerboard. I mixed various blends of mahogany and walnut dust in my epoxy fill, and got passable results. Not perfect, but passable.
If you are more skillful than I am (and most people are) you will not need to worry so much about your fill mixture. I am sure others will post more useful answers, and I will be reading along, too. Wish I could be more helpful.
Patrick
Author:  DannyV [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
I'm no expert George but I would say you are better off with new cutters. I've tried used ones and the difference is night an day. I glue my logo down with contact cement and scribe around it with an Exacto knife. Then remove the logo with acetone. Then give it a rub with chalk.

If you get Andy Depaule to do your logos he will send you a PDF that you can glue onto where the inlay is to go and just rout around the lines.

Good Luck
Author:  George L [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Thanks, Patrick. I'm still struggling with getting the MOP cut. My fine motor skills are typically pretty good, but this is proving a challenge. :-)

Danny, my saw blades are brand new. Is that what you mean by "new cutters?" Or maybe there's some other cutting tool you are recommending?

Thanks for the replies. People do these things all the time, so I know it isn't impossible. It just seems so right now.
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 6:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
George L wrote:
How do you guys do it? Any tips, tricks and advice would be greatly appreciated.

Unless you REALLY need to do it yourself, sub it out to a specialist or get it CNC'd. It's rare that you'd get enough practice on this sort of thing to do the job to exacting standards whilst keeping the time and budget under control. If time and budget is not an issue, it's just practice time that counts.

Check out this thread and this thread.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Sat Oct 05, 2013 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Check out my "S" that Andy did for me: viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41546

It has some pretty fine lines, and I think is much neater and cleaner hand the hand cut ones I've received, which were done by people who cut pearl all the time for a living.
Author:  DennisK [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Trevor Gore wrote:
Unless you REALLY need to do it yourself, sub it out to a specialist or get it CNC'd..

+1 to CNC.
Andy Birko has a good reputation around here for that sort of thing, so he gets my vote even though I haven't had anything done by him personally.

Script is high difficulty and low reward compared to unique artistic inlay work, IMO. Regardless of the design, cutting a logo gets boring after a few times, so either make it easy, or automated.
Author:  Casey Cochran [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
George L wrote:
Thanks, Patrick. I'm still struggling with getting the MOP cut. My fine motor skills are typically pretty good, but this is proving a challenge. :-)

Danny, my saw blades are brand new. Is that what you mean by "new cutters?" Or maybe there's some other cutting tool you are recommending?

Thanks for the replies. People do these things all the time, so I know it isn't impossible. It just seems so right now.



Make sure the blade is very tight in the saw frame, keep the saw vertical and only cut on the downstroke. Use a workboard with a small hole so the MOP has support. I think Danny was talking about the burrs for routing the pockets.
Author:  Cush [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Cutting MOP into script is always going to be highly challanging. Breakage is likely to happen just as you finish up the last letter. I have had good luck using a layer of clear packing tape over and sometimes under the shell as well. It will hold the broken pieces together if nothing else. But I think it reduces breakage also. I often cut with a jewelers wet bandsaw, so I need to waterproof the printed pattern.
Author:  klooker [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
I don't know if he spends much time on the OLF any more but your could PM VirgilGuitar.

He did some crazy inlay on his Dueling Dragons electric build, all cut by hand, and got a write up in Guitar World for it.

Kevin Looker
Author:  George L [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Thanks for all the replies. I appreciate the feedback and do see the logic and benefit of jobbing this particular process out. In the past I have successfully installed simple geometrically shaped materials purchased from inlay suppliers and I thought it would be cool to do this script logo on my own--at least once! Well, to borrow from Faulkner, sometimes you have to kill your darlings. That's okay. I'll keep messing around and even if I never get good enough to work it into an actual guitar, it will still be time well spent, as the journey truly is its own reward.

Thanks again,
Author:  grumpy [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
I did mine 77 times before I farmed it out to CNC, so it can be done.

A slightly dull blade works better than a fresh new one. Tilt the saw frame slightly forward, and let the weight of the saw itself do the cutting. Do not push. Get into a good, slow to medium-slow sawing rhythm and don't stop moving. Never try to turn the blade when you're not sawing.

I printed my logo, and would glue it to the pearl with CA, and also to the headstock. On the pearl, I would cut outside of the black, and on the headstock, I would rout out all of the black.

Keep at it; it's a skill well worth mastering.
Author:  Terence Kennedy [ Sun Oct 06, 2013 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
I copied Charlie Hoffman's technique. Farm out your inlay to a company like Precision Pearl or anyone that does CNC and have them make you a pin router template of the script.

Image

I made a pin router out of a modified Dremel drill press. I used a 0.035 pin and a 1/32" bit.

Image

Double stick tape the template to the back of your veneer in the right place and another piece of wood the same thickness to keep the whole thing level and rout your channel.

Image

I got my inlays and template from Precision Pearl and the fit is perfect, very little filling is needed. I am sure any of the CNC guys that are on the Forum could do the same thing.

Image

I've used this technique on 40 or 50 guitars and it has consistently worked very well. You have to be aware of making climb cuts in fragile areas like loops on Y's and d's so you don't chip out the center.

The Dremel drill press is flimsy and the stops are not optimal so I did make some mods that were not rocket science and it is adequate for this job however seeing some of the machinist chops on this forum I'm sure a better mousetrap could be made.
Author:  Arnt Rian [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
I like that, Terrence!

After cutting logos by hand for my 50 or so first instruments, I made a digitalized version of the logo and had OLF veteran Don Williams make me a stack of readymade, inlaid headplates on his CNC, in a variety of woods. I have a few extra logos that I use for unusual woods (or placements, I recently put a logo on a fretboard), or if I'm paricularily fussy about matching headstock veneer with the body woods. A pin router and a template would be perfect for that.

I seem to remember a miniature copy carver type contraption for this type of thing (Chris Paulick?). With routing templates 'cast' from friendly plastic or something similar...?
Author:  Quine [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
I cut my own with a jeweler's saw. It isn't hard but does take some practice to get the technique down. (not sure if I have the technique myself)
Here's a few tips I've learned:

- Don't hold the saw too tightly. Just a light fingertip hold keeps me from breaking shell when the blade snags
- Glue the shell to a veneer or strong paper for extra support
- Cut the inside lines first while leaving plenty of meat on the outside
- You don't have to cut everything with the saw!! I can shape the outside curves very quickly on my belt sander
Author:  George L [ Mon Oct 07, 2013 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Great info! Thanks to everyone for posting replies. I've not given up yet and it's good to check in with the group to gain some perspective.
Author:  RNRoberts [ Tue Oct 08, 2013 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
One problem no one has mentioned is just the fact that, with letters and numbers, your mind already knows what it should look like, regardless of the font you use, and your mind's frame of reference is a perfect printed letter or number. The slightest variation from perfect, at least to my eye, just screams mistake, mistake. After a dozen attempts to put a USA on a fretboard, I think I will farm out for CNC anything that is letters or numbers.
Author:  Christophe Mineau [ Wed Oct 09, 2013 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Inlaying Script Logo
Hi,
Personnaly, if it is to be inlayed in ebony, I don't feel it is too hard to achieve, you may have some play between the MOP and the slot, it will be invisible once filled with epoxy+ebony dust.
For cutting the MOP, no one said to glue it on 3mm plywood ?
I do like R.Siminoff does, glue the MOP on to thin ply with titebond, it prevents from breakage, and just drop it in boiling water once cut to separate wood and MOP and paper (the drafting).
I also wear a dust mask, and use a camping belows to blow the dust while I cut.
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