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Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41328		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Darryl Young [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
Why not dance on the head of a pin for a bit? <smile>

What are your thoughts on the differences of these 3 woods for back/side sets? Do sound differences in the finished product totally align with the density of the set utilized or do each have a unique quality of their own?

I have a nice set of quilted Sapelle on-hand. I'm trying to figure out how it might sound compared to traditional mahogany or Cuban. Seems Cuban runs slightly denser than Honduran on average and I would guess Sapele is denser than Cuban or Honduran on average. Some Cuban has a "reverby" qualaity......anyone ever hear this with Sapelle?

Thanks for your thoughts.
Author:  Joe Beaver [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
To my ear they sound the same. Of course other factors in the build will cause a variance. They make a bright, tight guitar.
Author:  john calkin [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
Can't speak to the Cuban side of this. Quilted sapele is about half end grain. Its soft and floppy. I'd compare it to stiff cardboard. Still, it makes a good guitar. If you ever had the chance to work with sinker mahogany you'd never work with contemporary Honduran again if you didn't have to. Most of what we get today is soft and furry. Still, it makes a good guitar. All mahogany and mahogany-like woods are the bottom feeders of tone wood. Still, as everybody knows, they make into good guitars. What you do with it is way more important than the wood itself.
Author:  runamuck [ Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
I've used a lot of "Honduran" and Cuban Mahogany over the years. I haven't used too much Sapele.

Honduran can really vary in density and color and I've used some Peruvian (same species as Honduran) that was almost as hard as maple. The Cuban I've seen was more consistent.

In that there's quite a variety among the mahoganys, I would think there'd be some subtle tonal differences but I don't know that for a fact.
Author:  grumpy [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
Yes!
Author:  grumpy [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
No!
Author:  grumpy [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
Maybe?
Author:  grumpy [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
Depends......... duh
Author:  john calkin [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
I think there is a long standing misconception that builders can do some mysterious thing to enhance a particular set of wood. I don't believe that. I also believe there are only two classes of wood, the super hard stuff and everything else. All of your guitars of a model should be built the same. If they don't sound good you are doing something wrong, most likely overbuilding. If you hope to find differences in tone due the the wood species you'll never be able to nail them down if you keep changing how you build. Top braces can vary enough to cause a tonal change that you might attribute to a change of body wood. Very subtle tonal differences might come from build variations you aren't even aware of. We should stop beating ourselves over the head about wood varieties and work toward making the best sounding guitars we can every time. If you keep them all around and play them a lot you may discover tonal variations that you can attribute to the wood, but if you play that much you won't be spending much time building. After you build with 30 or 40 varieties of wood this whole discussion becomes moot. Just try to make great guitars and stop believing that a particular species of hard wood is going to make a magical difference.
Author:  mcgr40 [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
I have built lots of period furniture, I am just trying to build my first guitar(see my post on how I sawed my cutaway back plate "backwards").
My education about mahogany came from my furniture mentor, born in 1909. He had many, many pieces of true 18th century furniture he had collected before it became really, really expensive. Probabably, he had spent his time and money only collecting pieces of the densest, highest figure lumber. He called these pieces san domingan/cuban mahogany interchangeably. This old lumber was quite different- he was quite upset that the sweitenia mahogani had been unavailable for half of his life. Now I do love the fine texture, carvability, stability, sanding characteristics of honduran mahogany. Many piece of honduran mahogany seem like they have a natural ring to me and feel like giant tonebars.
Unfortunately, I spent over 10 years with this cantankerous old fellow. Thusly, I have this slight predisposition to the mahogani, as opposed to the macrophylla-
The back plate I sawed backwards-was some cuban from south florida-I have installed a centerstripe on, per the consensus of the responders to my "hope I am not the only one to have done this" post.
The true cuban is different. I am not sure of the plantation grown stuff you see. Not all of the cuban wild grown is the same , either. It has a density closer to maple. It is really, really, stable. More stable than honduran
Now my oldfriend had a saying about honduran mahogany. It was pretty rough on honduran mahogany. He was a pretty rough old fellow. He wasn't a gutar maker, just a furniture builder. He was a very fine craftsman, however. When asked about honduran mahogany, he would invariably say, "well, boy, I suppose it would do very well -if you were building a hog trough"- he was criticizing the fact it was so common in central america it was used for this purpose in his life, but when it was imported here, it suddenly became "dear"-
Oh well, I just wanted to tell that old story. Keep my old buddy alive.
All mahogany is wonderful. They're all 3 right(paraphrased from my favorite line in fiddler on the roof).
Author:  David Newton [ Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
Mike supplied my "florida" Cuban Mahogany, I also have some of the Pelau Cuban, and Sapele.
All 3 make great sounding guitars, if there is a word to describe the difference, I don't know what it is.
Sapele, being the densest, will have the differentest tone, but what to call it?
How about "plays like butter".
Author:  Darryl Young [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Sapele vs Cuban vs Honduran
Thanks for the replies.

It appears no one has obtained the "reverby" tone with sapelle that is sometimes achieved with Cuban.
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