Put a 3" washer under the end pin/jack?
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| Oops https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41294 |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Oops |
What's the best way to fix this? This tail block design was the solution to several mistakes. Basically i ended up with sides that were just a bit short but I wanted to find a way to use them. That being said I just made another mistake when my air grinder got away from me for a second. WBW is wider than I wanted anyways, but that was the result/solution to yet another mistake. Attachment: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378158193.070252.jpg Attachment: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378158204.452948.jpg
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
Route it off & re-do? Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I re-routed it but there is still a bit of space between the maple and the purfling where the grinder got away, the pics aren't showing it very well. I just left a bit of the white that was there before and routed the rest of the purf off. So it helped a little but the issue is still there, just more minor. I'm wondering if I should fill it and try to hide it or chalk it up to being a rookie and let it go. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I've never worked with Maple, or any wood that light so I don't know how noticeable it will be. I have let the epoxy pore fill take are of it on darker woods like Walnut & Sapelle & it hasn't been that noticeable. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
Here's a picture of the fix, leveled you can see it better. Attachment: ImageUploadedByTapatalk1378161300.015958.jpg
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| Author: | Ken Lewis [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 7:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I don't think you'll be able to hide that, with the light wood and all. Looks to be about .025 to .030 in. or so. A fairly easy fix would be to route off the WBW plus the oops, redo the WBW with a little extra black on the inside. By taking the minimum amount you may get away with having to do the other side as well. When doing endgrafts I use a simple jig, a peice of 1/8 or 1/4 in. ply. with a rail or stop on each side to contain the routing tool. Only what's between the stops can get removed. Ken Lewis |
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| Author: | Steven Odut [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I would fill it with a small sliver of wood - if you match the grain by cutting the sliver from the same piece of wood with the same grain orientation, you will never see the repair. |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
Put a 3" washer under the end pin/jack?
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| Author: | theguitarwhisperer [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 9:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I wonder what a round medallion inlaid in the center would look like? |
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| Author: | WindyCityBluesBox [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
This isnt a terrible mistake. Like one of the other guys here said, its located in a spot that will not really been seen/noticed. That being said, I would do my best to cut a piece of maple to fit the gap, stick it in with epoxy, and be done with it. That should create nearly seemless fill. Good luck! -Alex |
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| Author: | Randolph [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 10:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
+1 on everyone else's take. Patch with a small piece of maple and move on. As a rookie, if this is what you are worried about, you are doing great! |
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| Author: | fingerstyle1978 [ Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
klewis wrote: I don't think you'll be able to hide that, with the light wood and all. Looks to be about .025 to .030 in. or so. A fairly easy fix would be to route off the WBW plus the oops, redo the WBW with a little extra black on the inside. By taking the minimum amount you may get away with having to do the other side as well. When doing endgrafts I use a simple jig, a peice of 1/8 or 1/4 in. ply. with a rail or stop on each side to contain the routing tool. Only what's between the stops can get removed. Ken Lewis Hey Ken I thought about that but I spent about an hour making sure that the ebony on each side was within .01 of each other. Looking at the picture later in the day after a few beers I think you are right about going WBWB, but the B in the WBWB would be fiber, I doubt one could see that but I was still concerned. The W that I left as excess is an eyesore as well, but as Flippo says, I am staring at the end graft. This is probably why I never finished my first build, I am too perfectionist and lack the skill to make my hands do what I envision and it got to the point where I quit on the first. I wanted to use two pieces of ply as suggested above but I am using an end mill on an air grinder that does not allow for a second piece of ply bracing. The bit is exposed and the 2nd piece of ply would block it. I have a Bosch laminate trimmer and that's the only other tool I'd consider, but it's really hard to see where the bit lies in that thing and I don't like taking chances. That's the appeal of the air grinder for me, it's 100% visible and exposed, but it's also it's weakness as there is no weight to hold the tool and it can occasionally get away and create this. I am just glad this is some scrap maple I had and not some pricey B&W ebony. That stuff is gorgeous but man I'd be flipped if I made a mistake like this on some zoot like that. |
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| Author: | cphanna [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
Yes, it will show, but as others have pointed out it's not in a very noticeable place. In time, you might be able to point it out to your friends and say: "I made a lot of goofs on this guitar, but this is the only one I couldn't figure out how to hide." If you can do that with a sense of humor and true satisfaction over the completion of your instrument, then you are good to go. Your friends will be amazed that you built a guitar, and this little cosmetic problem won't bother them in the least. I am speaking from personal experience when I say all that. On the other hand, if you think it's going to be nagging at you forever, then rout another time and put in a wider graft. |
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| Author: | Steven Odut [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:11 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
Quote: I am too perfectionist and lack the skill to make my hands do what I envision and it got to the point where I quit on the first. Sometimes part of the project is building up your skills to the level required for the task. Try a couple of different methods and do practice cuts before making the real cut. However, being a perfectionist myself, when mistakes add up it's sometimes best to start over. For example, you can easily hide the small gash caused by the air grinder, but if you're not happy with overall design or appearance of the end-graft, then you may have to start over. Quote: I am using an end mill on an air grinder that does not allow for a second piece of ply bracing... !!!! Man you need to get a decent handsaw and a sharp chisel !!! This is about 10 minutes of work - 2 saw cuts using a guide clamped to the guitar, then chisel out the waste while keeping a flat surface to glue the end graft onto. Fit the WBW strips first, then adjust the width of the spalted maple piece to fit. Doing this with an air grinder is about the hardest and riskiest way I can image doing it. The Bosch router might have limited visibility but if you clamp your guides in the right place you don't need to see the bit. |
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| Author: | JSDenvir [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I recently stumbled across this on Facebook, and thought it might be appropriate to this thread. Steve 
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| Author: | PeterF [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
JSDenvir wrote: I recently stumbled across this on Facebook, and thought it might be appropriate to this thread. Steve Thanks. Something to think about! ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | dzsmith [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I'm sure you will be the only one to notice it unless you point it out. I usually turn my "oops" into "features" except for the time I sawed a fret slot in the wrong location. |
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| Author: | Doug Balzer [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 6:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
I have now built two with three and four poised to launch. With building several I now notice patterns of deficiency rather than thinking they were simply one time errors. My plan is to make a list of recurring deficiencies, research appropriately for better methodology, and keep on learning. I am aiming for a product that is acceptable to even a critical eye but I know it is going to take time, strategic learning and repeated attempts. This is how I became proficient in my workplace; why should lutherie be any different? All that to say...don't be discouraged...keep on going...you are in good company. |
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| Author: | Spyder [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
WOW, what a mind blower! I read that white text on the black background, and after that every time I looked at the screen I kept seeing these weird lines. Man, that thing seriously messed with my eyes!!! |
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| Author: | Spyder [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
Are talking about that little thumbnail shaped divot? Hey, I'd fill it with something close in color, make sure you can't feel it, and call it good. I had something similar happen on one of my dulcimers. I couldn't figure out what happened, but turns out it was simply a tiny spot of grain texture caught just right so it looked like a flaw. Since you have some wavy grain on this piece, it will blend right in. OR, you can route the whole thing off and start over. But ask yourself, what will you do differently this time to not have that problem, while at the same time not risking a chipout in another spot? |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:12 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Oops |
The fix is often worse than the original problem. I think the bigger problem is that you have two light colored woods together. If you are going to do the binding and it's purfling the same way then you will probably have a lot more little irregularities to look at. Even if you do it almost perfectly some places will show no glue line and other places will have some glue line and that will make it look less than ideal. You're better off with a dark line next to the maple. So I agree with Ken that if you are going to fix it you should have a dark line next to the maple and use some sort of guide so that your tool can't wander. Save the light next to light for when you really have your skills honed. |
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