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Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=41262		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Nick Royle [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
I've been trying to work out how I could build a guitar with a "quick release" neck. Essentially, I want to build a guitar as close to full size as possible, but which packs away into a hand luggage sized case. Not just that, but I want the neck to come off in seconds without detuning the strings.

I've seen a few different ways people have gone about it.

Brunner OG Basic (simple bolt)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Ewu2fsuOE

Brunner OG with SNAP System (latch with thumbscrew)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nomxc5Cb7hA

Stow-Away Strat
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SszrUe7q3Ww

I drew this a few weeks ago, which was my attempt at approximating the OG Basic style attachment. (The headblock here is obviously heavy, so I'll likely use CF in some way to support a lighter one. This is really just to show the kind of neck attchment I've been thinking of. It also has what I hope is a workable neck angle adjustment system.)

Image

What I'm really struggling with is coming up with some kind of "latch" like the SNAP system. I've been looking at every kind of latch I can but haven't had much luck visualising how they could work on a guitar.

I've seen mention of quarter turn bolts and push pull bolts and panel fasteners and shear latches, etc, etc, but exhaustive Google searches have left me kinda pulling my hair out.

There's nowhere else for me to get any advice so I hope someone here may be able to point me in the right direction.

Ideally, I'd love to just build the guitar with a blank headblock and rout out an electric-style neck pocket (like on the Baby Taylor) and install some type of locking latch system. Am I asking too much? :)

Hope someone can help!
Thanks in advance,
Nick
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
I would think you would want to take the string tension down before releasing the neck. My first thought was something like the scewers for a bicycle wheel through the head block. But you would need to detune for that.

Image
Author:  Nick Royle [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Yeah, those did cross my mind.I'm going to do some experiments and test before I attempt to build it so I may as well add that to the list. There is just something so elegant about Lukas Brunner's SNAP neck. He doesn't detune, and doesn't usually need to retune when the neck goes back on. He just stretches the strings and it's about ready to go.

Image

Thanks for the suggestion!
Author:  John A [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
I too am working on this - I created a blank headblock and I am using 2 bolts to hold the neck on, like an electric. So far my bolts are on the inside - But I plan to get down to one bolt and hiding that bolt, while still being accessible from the outside. I am building classicals - and the primary goal is not for break down and travel - I am simply testing and researching neck attachment methods.

I call it my internal heel design - not sure how it will pan out yet - so far it weighs less than a regular Spanish heel/headblock
Author:  Nick Royle [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Great to hear from you John! Loving the internal heel.

I need to do some tests just like that. I'm not missing anything on that OG Basic am I? It is just using one bolt and a tight pocket? I guess I'll make one like yours, with two bolts, and one like the OG Basic and see how they compare. I'd love to see your one bolt system! :) From where would you access the bolt on the exterior? Could it have a quick thumb screw/wheel?

Have you thought about trying the neck angle adjustment grub/set screws like in my drawing? They may not work with a latch system but I'll do some tests once I find some suitable hardware. I'm not even averse to getting parts machined if I can't find anything reasonable off the shelf.
Author:  twick [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Doesn't ken Parker do that on his arch tops?
Author:  Nick Royle [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Thanks Anthony,
I did see his arch tops but I couldn't get much of an idea about how the neck attachment works.
Do you know of any pics that might help me understand?
Author:  John A [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Seems like all the bolt/travel/electric neck attachments are similar in one way or another. I have a challenge that on a classical I would like to keep the outside clean (bolt free) - no need for set screw (yet) as classicals pretty much have 0-1 degree neck angles - if a neck needs adjustment - a shim can be added or the neck sanded/flossed - I am looking in terms of weight savings as well.

I am also very interested in what you come up with here - I have also looked at hardware like sliding dovetails made of aluminum and T-track like a mitre slot
Author:  Tony_in_NYC [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Harvey Leach builds a folding, full size acoustic. Look him up. Maybe you can get some ideas. His brand is Voyage air I think. I believe he holds a patent or two on his design.
Author:  Quine [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
This sounds like a great idea.....I usually need a quick get away after playing for people laughing6-hehe
Author:  Nick Royle [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
John, Sorry for the delay in replying, I've been up a ladder painting windows! The sliding dovetails are interesting, I can't remember the name of the guy who makes them but they also enable action adjustment. One reason I like the idea of the adjustable neck is that the customer (my brother) would like to be able to switch back and forth between a low, electric style setup and a higher bottle neck slide compatible setup.

I'm happy to keep a bolt on the back of the guitar as long as I can think up a latch with a "push button release". Brunner has some kind of thumbscrew/strap pin that you pull out to release the latch and screw to secure it (as far as I can tell). I mentioned the sort of latch I'm after to a locksmith and he said to bring pictures to see if he can think up a solution. There are some heavy duty panel fasteners that are "so close yet so far" but I'm feeling my way in the dark here. I'll keep you updated with any progress!


Thanks Tony, I've seen the Voyage Air. I'll revisit it and see if I can learn any more but I like the idea of a two piece bridge and removable neck over a folding guitar.


lol, Quine, quick getaway, yes... But also a fairly decent club without harming the body (guitar body that is)! For those days when you don't feel like running :lol:

But another great thing about these necks is that you can have more than one per body. A standard and a baritone, or a bass maybe. Will need some clever bracing but Lukas Brunner does it! In fact, I think he even says he can put a mando neck on it! :)
Author:  jfmckenna [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Nick Royle wrote:
Yeah, those did cross my mind.I'm going to do some experiments and test before I attempt to build it so I may as well add that to the list. There is just something so elegant about Lukas Brunner's SNAP neck. He doesn't detune, and don't usually need to return when the neck goes back on. He just stretches the strings and it's about ready to go.

Image

Thanks for the suggestion!



Oh snap!!! That is clever.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Thu Aug 29, 2013 11:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Glad you agree, jf! I'd love to be able to put together something that works in a similar way. I just need to find some appropriate hardware. His original OG just had a bolt but the latch is an obvious improvement.

Anyone here happen to know of a latch system that could be adapted?
Author:  rtpipkin [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
This site seems to have a lot of latch and fastener ideas.

http://www.dirak.us/latches/7-330-Slam- ... Steel.html

Ray
Author:  Nick Royle [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 9:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Thanks Ray, I'll have a good look through that!

I wish there was a suitable, heavy duty version of these ball catches, http://www.tracepartsonline.net/PartsDefs/Production/DIRAK/69-22052007-454969/pictures/69-22052007-454969L.gif!
Author:  rtpipkin [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 3:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
That looks cool. I was just remembering a mechanism for attaching the forearm on an old shotgun I used to have. It's hard to describe, but it was pretty much like this.

Ray
Author:  Nick Royle [ Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Thanks Raymond,
Just the kind of suggestion I was hoping for! I'll have to try to get my head around how it would work on a guitar tomorrow. Time to hit the sack.

All suggestions very welcome... There must be preexisting latches for similar applications?!
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
What about just a normal dovetail neck, with some sort of a bolt or latch to keep the dovetail from sliding out of its pocket? The dovetail would provide the locking.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Thanks, Tai! That would work well, I'm sure, but I think you'd have to at least detune the strings to take the neck on or off with a tight fitting dovetail(?)


I did just find another removable neck travel guitar, which basically uses the same one bolt through the headblock idea as in my drawing.... Except his neck breaks down into two pieces.

http://www.furch.cz/?stranka=kategorie&kategorie=travelinstruments

Video of it being disassembled:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKUYkMr5M_o

Pretty cool.


But if I can anchor (in the headblock) a good solid latch and an equally solid spring, I'm sure I could do something similar to Brunner's design.... Would brass/stell pins inlaid into the headblock do it? (open question) [I say inlaid rather than drilled and banged in only because I'd like to be able to build the guitar body with a blank headblock.]
Author:  Tai Fu [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
So how does it work to remove the neck without detuning the string? Where would the string go? Flop around and get tangled in stuff so untangling them would be just as hard as retuning/restringing the guitar? I mean then there's the winding around the tuner giving lots of grief because when the winding is loose, it may jump out of the peg... So you'd have to use locking tuner and some kind of a speedloading string (such as Floyd Rose Speedloader) system. Even for a Fender Stratocaster you still have to remove the string before you remove the neck... otherwise there would be issues with strings getting in the way.

Personally I think Taylor's (and similar) bolt on system works for travel. The neck comes off and reattaches without any difficulty and it doesn't look like Frankenstein.
Author:  Nick Royle [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Two part bridge bridge and locking tuners solves that problem. Check this very short video.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nomxc5Cb7hA. It appeals to me for multiple reasons.

I agree that Taylor's neck joint is great... But if I can get an internal latch like Brunner's, it won't look like a Frankenstein. I admit there are a lot of unknowns but hey, I'm the experimental type :)
Author:  Nick Royle [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Another quick release neck design.... http://www.furch.cz/img/nastroje/lj10/vetsi/26.jpg

Ok, that one is a bit Frankenstein-looking. But it shows the kind of lines I've been thinking along. Hidden, internal spring latch with locking thumbscrew... That's what i need.
Author:  nkforster [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
It amazes me how many times there is a build issue that comes up that got answered about 100 years ago by the clever folk who designed and made Howe Orme guitars.

Here the neck comes off, and is adjustable to cope with the distortion of the soundboard over time. Add to that, there is more timber under that fretboard overhang than meets the eye. Its a clever bit of design.

Image
Author:  Colin North [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Not particularly tidy Mr Foster, unlike your own guitars..... idunno
Author:  Nick Royle [ Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Quick Release Acoustic Guitar Neck
Thanks Nigel,

As Colin says, it doesn't seem to be the neatest of solutions but I'll have to do some searching to see exactly how it works to see if I can glean anything from the design.

(BTW, You've been kind enough to answer a couple of my questions in the comments under your YouTube videos in the past, so thanks for that!)

This drawing is ridiculously inaccurate, basic, and poorly thought through, but it shows the kind of latch I've been thinking of. There are tons of reasons it doesn't look suitable in this drawing but it can't be a million miles away from Brunner's latch. I just need to work out all the details... Does this switch on any light bulbs for anyone?

WARNING: This may be the ugliest drawing you've seen here! It's just to show roughly how I'm thinking.
Image
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