Official Luthiers Forum!

In the past year or so, Menzerna has discontinued one of the solid buffing compounds that was marketed by several luthier suppliers, and replaced it with a new, improved product. If you've been using Menzerna bars for a while, you probably noticed the change in color and performance. The new bar is slightly more aggressive, and probably has other improved qualities.

I use buffing compounds infrequently enough that consistency is more important to me. I was dismayed to find that I couldn't buy the old stuff. I've located a source, and will share that information with other finishers who resist progress. Luddites P.M.

I wish the re-sellers would just use the Menzerna product numbers to keep the confusion down. That's why I get mine from Jescar/ Menzerna USA. Yes, the #18 has been replaced by the P204 and I like it. I really don't feel that it is more aggressive. It seems to be a bit dryer than the #18, less messy, smells nice and so far I like it. The #16 is still the same. The final polish that I used was GW6 and that is now replaced with ATOL6. The ATOL6 is a very dry fine polish. I am not super sold on it just yet and I have a couple bars of P175 on the way. The P175 is an ultra fine polish that may be the best product for me, with the polyester.

Most of you should still find the P204 (pink) as your first buff and then the #16 (tan) as the final buff more than adequate for the Nitro and maybe even those water based products.

_________________
jw ( o)===:::

I have a full bar of #18 and #16 that I'll sell at a discount if anyone here wants them. Just a wee corner knocked off from a one-time use.

I'm using their pink-ish #195 and #204 these days, then a liquid polish. The #18/16 combination worked really well for me for over ten years, but now it makes me sneeze!

I wear one of the 3M full face masks when I buff and I love it! No buff dust in the eyes or lungs. I put the mask on and use my iPod with Shure E5 and custom molds. Total isolation from the wheel noise and the dust. It's about the only time I listen to music too.

_________________
jw ( o)===:::

I wear a dust mask (N95), and cover my eyes and hair. Mario, that's interesting. I used to buff with no protection, and didn't have a problem. Now, I do okay if I'm covered up, but I still notice the waxy dust in my nose and eyes. I thought I'd become more observant.

Any buffing dust is going to be unhealthy. Cotton dust is a health hazard with a long, sad history. I'm wondering if the old W18 compound that I love is particularly irritating. (By the way, Menzerna still makes it, but they only supply it in the larger, robotic buffing system bar, and sell it in quantity to some big name manufacturers. Was the hand buffing bar replaced for health, or allergy concerns?)

My problem with the P204, is that it goes right through shellac finishes in a hurry. I've got a bar of P195, but I haven't tried it yet.

Joe, what's your opinion of 480W?

At least we're not buffing aluminum. Back in the 80's, Weinmann Bicycle Component's U.S. plant in Carbondale had an explosion in their buffing dust collection system. (Aluminum dust is very explosive. Cotton dust with small amounts of aluminum turns out to explode pretty well too.) The dust collection system was in the basement. The explosion blew a 40 foot hole in the factory floor, killed three workers, and launched debris that landed 1/4 mile away. (Completely off topic, but I like dramatic stories.)

I'm extremely sensitive to so many things, that it is impossible to know what the irritant is in any of the countless items that bother me. I do a nasal lavage after any dusty operations, including buffing. The "NeilMed" sinus rinse kit has been a blessing to me!

I've used the 195/204 combination on shellac with perfect results, so I'll suggest operator error on your part. I suspect that because the 195/204 cut faster than you're used to, you simply haven't adapted your method to them, yet. Either slow down the buffs, or move your work across it more gently or quickly.

That would be the 3M 07140. They do make a bunch and many of them include the charcoal cartridges for painting but those are not needed for buffing. The simple pink dust cartridge version works well for our buffing dust needs. I would always be miserable after buffing a guitar without this full face protection. Now, no dust or cotton hairs in the eyes or face. You can concentrate on buffing instead of how irritating all the debris is. The dust cartridges are 3M P100 and are very inexpensive to replace, under $10.00 and the mask itself will last a long time. Mine is about four years old and the shield is still clear as can be. I did break one of the straps that tension it to your head/face but you can also replace that four strap assembly for $20 to $30.

_________________
jw ( o)===:::

I did find the P204 to be a bit more aggressive but mostly much "dryer" than the W18. The W18 was more oily and maybe that allowed you to move a little faster than the P204 does. You might consider buffing with the 16 first and following that with the P175. I really, REALLY like the P175 as my final buff. I have no experience with the 480W.

_________________
jw ( o)===:::

I'm sure that's the case. When I've got a system that works, I hate to change anything. It sounds like I need to take the plunge, and get used to the new bar. I'm glad to hear that it can work on shellac.

Joe--thanks for your suggestions. I give them a lot of weight. I'll need to spend a few hours, and a few dollars settling in on a new protocol. The full face mask will be part of the system. I'll certainly try the compounds you suggest.

Now if Menzerna changes their product line again, I'm likely to go back to rottenstone.......or Simichrome.