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| Laminating Glue For Double Sides https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37600 |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Greetings, I've been using Unibond 800 for laminating double sides and really like it but as it's only available in larger quantities I never use it all up before the 1 year shelf life expires. I've used epoxy but there is more bleed through on porous woods. Tightbond's open time is a little shorter than I'd like. What are the rest of you double side folks using for an adhesive? Thanks |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Although I still use West System with more than satisfactory results, a couple of my friends use Gorilla Glue. They say the secret is to wipe the sides lightly with water, then wait until it's dry to the touch to spread the glue. This gives them more open time to line up and clamp the side veneers together. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Michael - may I ask which WEST epoxy you use? Thanks. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I use titebond , but have the epoxy and gorilla glue.Have laminated sides 2 seperate pieces of bubinga with a tapered white center strip using white gorilla , Just dampen with water.In my climate hot, the gorilla sets up way too fast to get the clamps on for laminating double sides before they start foaming . The system 3 takes abt 1/2hr of open time and titebond abt 10 min. Never tried it, but just got some fish glue from Lee valley , which when the weather is hot sets up in abt 20 min at 82 deg F, nice thing abt it is that with steam it can be reactivated .There is a lengthy article in the GAL abt laminating sides. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 11:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I use titebond , but have the epoxy and gorilla glue.Have laminated sides 2 seperate pieces of bubinga with a tapered white center strip using white gorilla , Just dampen with water.In my climate hot, the gorilla sets up way too fast to get the clamps on for laminating double sides before they start foaming . The system 3 takes abt 1/2hr of open time and titebond abt 10 min. Never tried it, but just got some fish glue from Lee valley , which when the weather is hot sets up in abt 20 min at 82 deg F, nice thing abt it is that with steam it can be reactivated .There is a lengthy article in the GAL abt laminating sides. |
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| Author: | Kevin Waldron [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
We personally use products like this for lamination. http://www.pro-glue.com/product_order.html http://www.vacupress.com/veneerglue.htm http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... 5-lbs.html http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... edium.html Hope this helps. Blessings, Kevin |
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| Author: | jsmith [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I use the #105 resin and the #205 hardener. 5:1 resin/hardener ratio. When I run out, I believe I'll go to the #207 clear hardener. The 205 gets darker with age. The batch I have now started out amber and now has the color of dark molasses. Hasn't bee a problem as of yet, but I've only been using it on darker woods. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 3:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
jsmith wrote: I use the #105 resin and the #205 hardener. 5:1 resin/hardener ratio. When I run out, I believe I'll go to the #207 clear hardener. The 205 gets darker with age. The batch I have now started out amber and now has the color of dark molasses. Hasn't bee a problem as of yet, but I've only been using it on darker woods. Thank you Michael. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I don't do double sides, but if I was going to I'd use the "Pro Glue" Kevin linked. If you think bleed though will be a problem let it sit 15 minutes of so after spreading before putting the pieces together and clamping. It's available from Woodcraft in small quanities. I use it for laminated neck and tail blocks, as well as laminated necks. |
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| Author: | Ken McKay [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue $For Double Sides |
You can get Dap brand Plastic resin glue from most small hardware stores in a $10 buck tub. Not too cheap but you will probably get a a set of sides or maybe two from it. It is UF similar to unibond but in powder, just add water. Good stuff I have used a similar product from CP adhesives for years. When I run out I shoot down to the hardware store for the Dap stuff. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 7:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I/ ve used the powdered brown glue that one has to mix from homeless depot , My only dislike is messy, dirty job I/ve laminated a 8 veneer red oak for chair bows, The glue is not kind to plane blades either. |
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| Author: | mikemcnerney [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I use TB I extend, it has a 15 min. open time, and a rigid glue line similar to unibond. TB II extend is also available & 'may' have a less rigid glue line. MM |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Before the vacuum press I used System III epoxy. Now I use titebond with the vac press with most excellent results. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I/d like to get into vacuum pressing, I have a vak u clamp, but no bag , can someone direct me to a good article on using a form and bag to laminate sides thanks. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Ernie - not an article but you can get a visual at the link below. Scroll down to the bottom. This is something I have been wanting to try too, so I'm interested in what others have to say as well. http://www.lessonsinlutherie.com/toolsandmachines.html |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 12:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Thanks charlie ,have an idle vacuum clamp, but no bag. I used the pictures in bogdanovich/s book to laminate a double set of sycamore sides for a CL gtr. It/s time consuming , and like you, would like to try vacuum bag veneering to do laminated sides . I used titebond, and there was one small area that didn/t get glued that had to be redone .It/s tricky. I/m going to do a laminated walnut sides for an Om build . |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I bend both sides together in a fox bender, then take the mold out of the bender, glue the sides, and put them on the mold and into a bag. A couple of pieces of tape here and there keeps everything together and as long as the waist is clamped to the mold in the right spot everything else kind of works out on its own once vacuum is added. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 4:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Lex - thanks for the info and photo. Do you use just a standard silicone bag or is it specially shaped? Looks like it's just a flat bag but I couldn't tell for sure. Have you found you need to do anything to protect the surface of the ply closest to the form from glue to avoid staining that might show on the inside of the guitar? |
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| Author: | ernie [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Lex a list of the materials you used to build your DIY vacuum bag , would be most helpful and much appreciated .Thanks ernie |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I believe that Brian Burns is now using an outside mold rather than the inside one shown on his website. Reckons he gets a more accurate fit that way. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Looks like you're right, Jeff. Brian mentions the outside mold in the below linked video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1l3v_dr ... r_embedded |
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| Author: | James Ringelspaugh [ Sat Sep 01, 2012 9:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Charlie and Ernie: All I used to build my system was a credit card and joewoodworker.com... I bought one of these systems: http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/ ... ystem.html and whatever 2'x4' bag they recommended and sold at the time. |
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| Author: | mikemcnerney [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 7:08 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
I use an outside mold for lam sides & put it in the bag. As long as your mold is perfect you get a true shape. it is tricky getting the bag to conform to the inside. I use the breather mesh & that helps a lot. Unibond gives you even more time but I have good results too with the TB I extend. There was a link that I have now lost on a cello builder using an outside mold, that was the best yet. If anyone can find it I'd love to see it again? MM |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
Thanks for the info guys. I've been using clamps and cauls over a solid form for glue up. Can you get enough pressure with vacuum to hold a cutaway? |
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| Author: | klooker [ Sun Sep 02, 2012 9:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Laminating Glue For Double Sides |
lex_luthier wrote: I bend both sides together in a fox bender... Do you put the blanket between the sides? Could you give some details of your technique? Kevin Looker |
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