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| Hi from Israel https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37568 |
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| Author: | snakehead [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Hi from Israel |
Hi, I'm Paul Graham in Jerusalem.I have a friend here with a very special vintage Martin acoustic guitar,that needs a repair to it.(The bridge is lifting off,and needs to be replaced) No-one here is experienced enough with old Martins to do this. My question is if,by any chance there is a luthier ,experienced in vintage Martin acoustics,who may be coming out for a visit in the near future and could perhaps work on it?I understand that it would be impossible to bring their workshop with them,but we would be able to find a place to work that would be well stocked with tools. If any of you are planning a visit to Israel in the near future,we'd love to hear from you. thanks, Paul paul_g@netvision.net.il |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Hello Paul. A lifting bridge is not really a major repair that any luthier or even qualified repair person can't do. Unless you are concerned about warranty issues I think surely in the city of Jerusalem there must be a qualified luthier yeah? Also IMO it would be better to not wait on this or at least if you do then take the string tension off. The bridge could get so distorted that a re-glue won't be an option. |
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Really ?? Am I the only one that finds this a lil fishy ? I guess it could be on the up and up , but it seems to me that there should be someone in that part of the world capable of this repair . |
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| Author: | ernie [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Hi paul , if you visit the delcamp classical guitar forum an click on the luthier logo you will find a discussion by a fellow in Israel that wants to buy a 10 -12 k classical gtr, in that discussion there are a number of major luthiers in Israel mentioned . I think they are all outside jerusalem, Ask at local music stores, for the best known luthiers in the area. Shalom . |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Welcome to the forum. About a year ago, I was in New Orleans listening to a gypsy jazz duo. One of the guys was playing a beat up Martin with a bridge lifted at almost 45 deg. I could not believe it. Still sounded awesome. But it was a disaster waiting to happen. I have no idea if he fixed it. But it's not a big deal to fix. The hard part is pretty much done for you. Just a matter of cleaning, resurfacing, and remounting. |
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| Author: | snakehead [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
WudWerkr wrote: Really ?? Am I the only one that finds this a lil fishy ? I guess it could be on the up and up , but it seems to me that there should be someone in that part of the world capable of this repair . Hi, Sorry,but this is not fishy at all.This is a 1940's D28 Herringbone,and I even got an email from Stan Jay at Mandolin Brothers ,saying how it's a delicate procedure and needs someone experienced-by experienced I mean experienced with old Martins. There's a possibility of getting it to the USA in the future to have Mandolin Brothers take care of it,but we figured that if a luthier with the RIGHT EXPERIENCE of old Martins was coming this way,we could get it sorted out.Also,I don't know how much you've tried taking guitars on planes lately,but it's virtually impossible to get them to allow the hard case on the plane,and so one has to risk a flexible case in order to make it cabin baggage,not quite the best treatment for a herringbone. Does that explain things? Paul |
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| Author: | Shaw [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
WudWerkr wrote: Really ?? Am I the only one that finds this a lil fishy ? I guess it could be on the up and up , but it seems to me that there should be someone in that part of the world capable of this repair . I agree! Maybe this is the new big thing in crime going on worldwide. Luring them to Israel and then kidnapping them and forcing them to repair martins... 
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| Author: | WudWerkr [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Shaw wrote: WudWerkr wrote: Really ?? Am I the only one that finds this a lil fishy ? I guess it could be on the up and up , but it seems to me that there should be someone in that part of the world capable of this repair . I agree! Maybe this is the new big thing in crime going on worldwide. Luring them to Israel and then kidnapping them and forcing them to repair martins... """ Help me ive been kidnapped and am being forced to work on an old martin guitar , I have been warned that if I try to escape I will be torturd by having to ................... repair an ovation .......  """"Sorry paul , didnt mean to sound rude in my comment . Welcome and I hope you get the help you need . Just seems to me that Martin Guitars could find you someone alot closer than usa that has the chops to make that repair ... Maybe not . |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:45 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
... Then you wake up in a bathtub full of ice and a note telling you to get to the hospital quickly |
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| Author: | jfmckenna [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Welcome to the forum. About a year ago, I was in New Orleans listening to a gypsy jazz duo. One of the guys was playing a beat up Martin with a bridge lifted at almost 45 deg. I could not believe it. Still sounded awesome. But it was a disaster waiting to happen. I have no idea if he fixed it. But it's not a big deal to fix. The hard part is pretty much done for you. Just a matter of cleaning, resurfacing, and remounting. A martin with a Bigsby?
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| Author: | Mike Dotson [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Snakehead, despite what Stan said it's not really that big of a deal, but I understand not handing it to just anybody. There's an Israeli guitar builder by the name of Gil Yaron that makes high end Fender and Gibson-style electrics. I'm sure he has plenty of contacts that could help you out. |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Doesn't Boaz Elkayam (sp?) live there as well? |
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| Author: | snakehead [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Darrel Friesen wrote: Doesn't Boaz Elkayam (sp?) live there as well? Sorry to be a pain,but my friend is worried about the repair being done in a traditional way,in order to preserve the guitar's pedigree and value0.I'm afraid Boaz is not well known to the community here,as just about all of his work is for export,not for local consumption,and so many people are wary of taking their vintage Martins to someone who has not worked on many Martins.That was the whole point in my first message looking particularly for a luthier with experience with old martins. |
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| Author: | charliewood [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Boaz Elkyam is a luthier of the Highest order - this repair would be well within his realm of expertise! I would ask myself whether he would trouble himself with such a repair.... but from what I understand he is a terrific nice guy - and might be helpful in this regard if approached nicely... I wouldnt hesitate to have him work on any aspect of a guitar. period. Cheers Charliewood |
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| Author: | Darrel Friesen [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Boaz does claim on his site under the repairs section that he specializes in the restoration of vintage instruments. I agree with Charliewood above. |
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| Author: | oval soundhole [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Darrel Friesen wrote: Boaz does claim on his site under the repairs section that he specializes in the restoration of vintage instruments. I agree with Charliewood above. +1, Boaz builds awesome guitars and can easily repair a prewar herringbone. |
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| Author: | ernie [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
-1 for Boaz, sorry had some dealings with him in usa not trustworthy.Ask other CA. luthiers abt the negative comments made abt him at the healdsburg gtr festival abt 12 yrs ago. Hopefully he/s changed his attitude. PS. I/m a former israeli. There are several talented luthiers there, just keep asking, israelis like to network a lot through friends and acquaintances. |
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| Author: | Jeff Highland [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
All you need is a luthier who will use hot hide glue for the repair. That will maintain the original build technique. There is nothing complicated about it |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Jeff Highland wrote: All you need is a luthier who will use hot hide glue for the repair. That will maintain the original build technique. There is nothing complicated about it Ok, so it's glued down. How do you know WHAT Glue was used? How can that possibly affect the value of the guitar unless the repair fails? |
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| Author: | oval soundhole [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Jeff Highland wrote: All you need is a luthier who will use hot hide glue for the repair. That will maintain the original build technique. There is nothing complicated about it Ok, so it's glued down. How do you know WHAT Glue was used? Assuming it hasn't been repaired previously it has to be hot hide glue. Martin didn't start using titebond until the move to the new factory in the sixties. Having the bridge glued on with something else wouldn't preserve the original build technique which would probably bring down the value |
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| Author: | John Killin [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
snakehead wrote: The bridge is lifting off,and needs to be replaced To maintain the originality you want to look for someone who will re-glue your original bridge not replace it. Find someone competent and they will either try and save the bridge or explain why it can’t be saved. You might be narrowing or overcomplicating you search by looking for a Martin specialist. Really, contacting Martin isn’t a bad idea. Good luck in your search. |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
oval soundhole wrote: Mike O'Melia wrote: Jeff Highland wrote: All you need is a luthier who will use hot hide glue for the repair. That will maintain the original build technique. There is nothing complicated about it Ok, so it's glued down. How do you know WHAT Glue was used? Assuming it hasn't been repaired previously it has to be hot hide glue. Martin didn't start using titebond until the move to the new factory in the sixties. Having the bridge glued on with something else wouldn't preserve the original build technique which would probably bring down the value I get that. But ur missing point. How can you tell HOW a bridge was glued on a repair? In the car world, there is carfax, no such analog in the guitar world. So, an unscrupulous repair person could use CA, and no one would know the difference when pricing the guitar |
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| Author: | oval soundhole [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 12:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Mike O'Melia wrote: I get that. But ur missing point. How can you tell HOW a bridge was glued on a repair? In the car world, there is carfax, no such analog in the guitar world. So, an unscrupulous repair person could use CA, and no one would know the difference when pricing the guitar It's based on trust and reputation. |
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| Author: | Arnt Rian [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 7:56 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Hi from Israel |
Definitely have someone with a good reputation who is used to working on similar instruments do this, and no, it is not just a matter of gluing the bridge back on. For one thing, it is not uncommon that if these bridges will deform a bit if they have been lifting for some time; some times they will sort of bend forward as they peel up, and as a result they will not be level on the bottom. If you simply sand it flat, the top of the bridge wings will end up slightly concave, as well as thinner than original. What to do? Frank Ford has some good tips, as usual. http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luthier/Technique/Guitar/Bridges/BoilBridge/boilbridge.html A competent repair person would also check to see what condition the bridge plate is in, as well as any lose braces etc. With all that taken care of, and the gluing surfaces properly restored and prepared, the bridge should be glued with hot hide glue for sure. If nothing else, it would be the correct thing to do to maintain its vintage value. |
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