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| how are you storing your front, back and side sets? https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=37564 |
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| Author: | patch [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 12:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
i just got a few back and side sets today and am wondering how best to store them. at the moment they are stickered with a bit of weight on the top. its going to be awhile till i get to them and am wondering the best way to store them. i am in new mexico so humidity isn't really a problem but maybe the dryness is. thanks! |
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| Author: | Ken Franklin [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Dryness is much more of a problem than high humidity for tonewood storage, especially if any of it is flatsawn. Stickering shouldn't be necessary in your situation if the wood has been properly dried. Is your humidity controlled? I would keep it at least up to 35%. I like to wrap the ends with packing tape for a few weeks until I'm sure that it is acclimated to my shop. |
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| Author: | bluescreek [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
I keep my high dollar wood pressed. Most other stable woods are stacked. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:03 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
The biggest issue is fluctuations in humidity. IMO once acclimated, it's ok to stack. You should sticker to ensure even transfer of moisture to & from all surfaces while acclimating. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Dave Rickard [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 9:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
bluescreek wrote: I keep my high dollar wood pressed. Help me out here, Do you actually have them in a press or just clamped to a flat surface? |
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| Author: | Pmaj7 [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
If it's dry, i just stack it flat. Stacking it on end would make me a little nervous (exept tops). I tend to put 10-20 lb on b&s esp if; $$$, thin, off Q, high fig. |
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| Author: | klooker [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:38 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
When I was at John's open house, he had them clamped to a flat surface. Kevin Looker |
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| Author: | Terence Kennedy [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 1:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
I sticker with weight for a few months and then stack to save room. Be sure to label and date them. |
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| Author: | Don Williams [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:35 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
I also stack them flat. If the wood seems prone to moving i.e. cupping or twisting, then I will put that on the bottom of the pile to help counteract that. Something else to consider is the surface of each face. A very rough surface will have more surface area than a smooth surface, so it will react differently to changes in humidity and temperature conditions than the smooth side, which will result in cupping and twisting. Try to sand both faces the same before stickering and putting them away for any length of time. |
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| Author: | SteveSmith [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
verhoevenc wrote: I sticker acclimate for 1 year per inch (so a couple months for a back/side set). From there it's just sittin vertical on a shelf next to the rest of um. Chris +1 |
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| Author: | patch [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
sounds like i ought to just keep them how they are. many thanks! |
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| Author: | Anthony Armijo [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Hi patch, I'm in Albuquerque and have become very good friends with CA glue because of our high desert air. Everyone gave you good advice but additionally because of our extremely low humidity make sure over the next couple of weeks you check the ends of your tonewoods almost daily for small cracks forming. If you find any cracks immediately wick some CA glue into the crack and it should stop it from splitting any further. Our low humidity has put some nice cracks into some pretty high end sets of wood but I caught most of them right away and the damage was minimal. If you keep woods in a stable environment you should be able to relax after about a month or two of acclimating even in our NM environment. Have fun |
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| Author: | patch [ Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
thanks for the advice anthony! |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
I use rubber bands to hold stickered bundles together. The rubber bands apply far more force than the typical weights I see folks using for pressure. This is especially helpful for fresh resawn veneers. The rubber bands also allow you to easily move bundles from one place to another without disturbing the sticker pile. You can even stand bundles on end for storage and ease of accessibility if desired since gravity is not a factor at all. If you get a cheap 1/4" thick fiber board from a big box store you can cut it into sticks for spacers between the veneers. Then use heavier dimensioned wood for the top most and bottom most sticks for attaching the rubber bands (applying force through the bigger sticks). The 1/4" thick spacers really minimize the space that stickered veneers take up. 1/4" spaces are plenty to allow the wood to acclimate. Hope this helps. Ed |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Ed Haney wrote: I use rubber bands to hold stickered bundles together. The rubber bands apply far more force than the typical weights I see folks using for pressure. This is especially helpful for fresh resawn veneers. The rubber bands also allow you to easily move bundles from one place to another without disturbing the sticker pile. You can even stand bundles on end for storage and ease of accessibility if desired since gravity is not a factor at all. If you get a cheap 1/4" thick fiber board from a big box store you can cut it into sticks for spacers between the veneers. Then use heavier dimensioned wood for the top most and bottom most sticks for attaching the rubber bands (applying force through the bigger sticks). The 1/4" thick spacers really minimize the space that stickered veneers take up. 1/4" spaces are plenty to allow the wood to acclimate. Hope this helps. Ed Ed - I like the rubber band idea! Have you ever had any trouble with fiber board reacting with or discoloring your wood? |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Because of space considerations, most of my wood is stored flat, with no stickers. Much of my wood is stored in a building with no humidity control, and it rarely gets below 10 to 11 percent moisture content. When I bring wood into the humidity-controlled area (where I assemble guitars), I will stand it up so air can circulate all the way around, or put it on sticks and use a fan on it for a couple of days. In my experience, thin wood (3/16" thick or less) will equalize with the surrounding air in less than two weeks without the fan, or a day or so with the fan. Once the wood is in equilibrium, it goes on the stack. I would not trust using fiberboard for sticks. When I was cutting a lot of red spruce, I made my sticks from scrap 2 X 4's (white fir, mostly). They are all the same size, which is 1/4" square by 10" long. I probably have 3000 of them. You can tell if thin wood is in equilibrium by laying it flat, exposing only the top side. If the exposed side goes concave, the wood is losing moisture to the air. If it goes convex, it is gaining moisture. If it remains flat, it is in equilibrium. If you are worried about the wood getting too dry in desert conditions, it is a good idea to seal any end grain. I like to use melted paraffin. Anchorseal is another good choice. |
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| Author: | woody b [ Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:04 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Most of mine is in a building that isn't climate controlled, just stacked on shelves. I bring it into my shop ~6 months before building with it, and sticker it. I have a big box inside my climate controlled shop with bridge blanks, fingerboards and bracing material. I've also got a big stack of well seasoned neck woods under a bench. |
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| Author: | Ed Haney [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
CharlieT wrote: Ed Haney wrote: I use rubber bands to hold stickered bundles together. The rubber bands apply far more force than the typical weights I see folks using for pressure. This is especially helpful for fresh resawn veneers. The rubber bands also allow you to easily move bundles from one place to another without disturbing the sticker pile. You can even stand bundles on end for storage and ease of accessibility if desired since gravity is not a factor at all. If you get a cheap 1/4" thick fiber board from a big box store you can cut it into sticks for spacers between the veneers. Then use heavier dimensioned wood for the top most and bottom most sticks for attaching the rubber bands (applying force through the bigger sticks). The 1/4" thick spacers really minimize the space that stickered veneers take up. 1/4" spaces are plenty to allow the wood to acclimate. Hope this helps. Ed Ed - I like the rubber band idea! Have you ever had any trouble with fiber board reacting with or discoloring your wood? Charlie, I have never had any trouble with the fiber board discoloring or reacting to mahogany, rosewood, spruce or cedar (have not used on other woods yet). I've not seen any indiction on the wood that the fiber board was there even after a couple of years. I see that Todd noted some technical details about the fiber board which I can't confirm or refute, since I do not know. His comments seem reasonable to me (could easily sand off IF it occured). Bottom line - no problems with the fiber board for me even stickering resawn "wet" wood. It made my sticking life MUCH easier space-wise, cost-wise, and mobility-wise (with rubber bands). |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Todd Stock wrote: MDF and fiberboard may have a oily coating from the press and finish process...it will transfer to your wood if present. It does not tend to penetrate too deeply, so usually sands off. would plywood be better? that´s what i use (baltic birch) and never noticed any staining.
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Thanks to everyone for the thoughts on fiber board and other options. I need to make up a load of stickers and would like to use something thin that won't require me to do a lot of ripping and sanding. To be on the safe side, I may go with some thin ply. Thanks for the suggestion. |
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| Author: | Tai Fu [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 1:19 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
I keep it in a dehumidified room to about 45-50% humidity. That's a huge struggle in Taiwan because the average humidity is about 90% to 150% (if that were possible). Good for pyrotechnics (no risk of static igniting compositions) but bad for luthiery.... |
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| Author: | John Arnold [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
Quote: I need to make up a load of stickers and would like to use something thin that won't require me to do a lot of ripping and sanding. Sanding? I cut my sticks on a bandsaw with a pretty coarse blade. The way I look at it, a rough surface is an advantage, because the major problem with sticking green wood is mold. The less surface contact, the better. I know this is a discussion about wood that is not green, but I will just point out that you should never, ever use green wood for sticks. The extra moisture will encourage mold growth, commonly called sticker stains. I like to use softer wood for sticks because it is more absorbent, and generally doesn't warp. |
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| Author: | CharlieT [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 12:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
John Arnold wrote: Quote: I need to make up a load of stickers and would like to use something thin that won't require me to do a lot of ripping and sanding. Sanding? I cut my sticks on a bandsaw with a pretty coarse blade. The way I look at it, a rough surface is an advantage, because the major problem with sticking green wood is mold. The less surface contact, the better. I know this is a discussion about wood that is not green, but I will just point out that you should never, ever use green wood for sticks. The extra moisture will encourage mold growth, commonly called sticker stains. I like to use softer wood for sticks because it is more absorbent, and generally doesn't warp. John - that is a great point! Thanks for mentioning it. The sanding I was referring to was to ensure uniform thickness, but your point about less surface contact seems more important. Thanks. |
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| Author: | Alex Kleon [ Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
I cut my sticks on a bandsaw with a pretty coarse blade. The way I look at it, a rough surface is an advantage, because the major problem with sticking green wood is mold. The less surface contact, the better. I know this is a discussion about wood that is not green, but I will just point out that you should never, ever use green wood for sticks. The extra moisture will encourage mold growth, commonly called sticker stains. I like to use softer wood for sticks because it is more absorbent, and generally doesn't warp.[/quote]Years ago, a friend of mine was cutting a lot of rough lumber, and he bought stickers that had a spiral cut all the way around them for this exact reason. Alex |
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| Author: | mqbernardo [ Mon Sep 03, 2012 11:08 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: how are you storing your front, back and side sets? |
thanks. |
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