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I have obtained a Flamenco style guitar from a person that inherited it from his Aunt who collected guitars
He was in his 70's and didn't know anything about it except that it was very old.
It has a label inside that says Francisco Gonzalez and other stuff that is written in Spanish.
I have had this for a couple of years now and want to try to find out what it actually is.
What would be the protocol for finding out an instruments' history?
I am hoping to post pictures soon.
Thanks for any advice.

If it's old enough it could be by the original Francisco Gonzalez who was one of the first Madrid makers in the mid-19th century.
From the Zavaletas site:
Francisco González Estéve, born in Córgomo, Orense in 1820, was an engineer who took up guitar making. In fact, he is credited with making the first car in Spain. Made before the internal combustion engine, it was a lever operated vehicle. He is also generally given the honor of being the founder of the Madrid school, this despite the fact that he was not a native of Madrid, but had moved there in 1835 or 1836. Nor was he the first, guitar maker in Madrid. There was already a flourishing Madrid school developing. The honor certainly is appropriate for being the most influential, for he trained José Ramirez I, who in turn taught his brother, Manuel Ramirez, and it is two these two brothers that almost every maker in Madrid traces his lineage. Francisco, however, was also recognized in his own time as a fine maker. In 1867, at the Universal Exposition in Paris, he was awarded a bronze metal for his guitars. He had a series of shops. From around 1849-1855, he was at Calle de los Estudios de San Isidro. He then moved to Calle Toledo, 40. In 1863, he was at Calle Latonerones, 1. By 1864, he on the calle Carrera de San Geronimo, No. 15, near the Puerta de Sol, the shop he continued to occupy until his death in 1879. His son-in-law, Enrique Romano Papell took over the shop when he died.

Later incarnations of these guitars were labeled "Hijos Gonzalez" then "Casa Gonzalez" the labels show the series of medals won by Gonzalez.
Pics of the guitar and label would be very useful in identifying it.

Thanks David for your response.
I am attached some photos of the guitar

Are these steel strings that I see!?!

If this guitar is indeed a collectible, take off these strings before something bad happens, if it hasn't already...

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

Yes, those are steel strings and that was the way I received it. They were removed after someone else already told me to remove them after I got it.
Here are some more photos but the label is hard to photograph. It is old and deteriorating, but still readable.
It does say Francisco Gonzalez

Cliff,

From what I can see, that appears to be the Francisco Gonzalez label. Sheldon Ulrik's book, "A Collection of Fine Spanish Guitars" includes information about and photos of an 1869 Francisco Gonzalez guitar. He shows the label which looks like the one in your guitar. The guitar's date is shown at the very bottom of the label, which appears to be missing from yours.

He states in his book that in addition to the one in his collection, "Only three other Francisco Gonzalez guitars are known to exist: a c. 1870 example in the Musee de la Musique, Paris, one in the Ramirez collection in Madrid, and an 1878 instrument in the Felix Manzanero collection in Madrid." I'd get it looked at!

Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

If you compare this label closely with the one in Urlik's book you can see that the outermost edge has been trimmed off on this one.
The guitar itself doesn't look at all like the one in the Tom and Mary Ann Evans book with the bridge and fingerboard appearing to be much later replacements at the very least I think.
The trimming on the label is worrisome and could indicate that it was salvaged and put into this guitar long ago in order to make it more valuable.

A better shot of the peghead would be helpful here as the two examples I'm looking at both have essentially the "Jose Ramirez" shape (Gonzalez was his teacher) and this one does not.
Both the Manzanero and Ramirez collection examples are quite different from this guitar and much more nicely made as well.
If it is the real thing it's a very "bottom of the line" example.
Check out "Guitars from the Renaissance to Rock" by Tom and Mary Ann Evans, "The Ramirez Collection" by Brian Whitehouse and the Felix Manzanero website (click on "Collecion").

Richard Brune in Chicago would be a good one to appraise it if you think it's the real deal. He does restoration work on instruments from this era, and has a personal museum at his shop with a pretty amazing collection. I got to peak inside a Torres while I was there for a French Polishing class a few years back.

http://www.rebrune.com/services/appraisals.html

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Its plantilla resembles the Francisco Gonzalez that Jeff Elliott restored, perhaps narrower. And that one has a continous 19th fret, too.

I agree that it resembles that one superficially more than the others but note still the differences in the head and bridge among other things.
Ultimately an internal inspection may be the only way to determine it's pedigree.
Even makers who vary the externals often are consistant in the way they make the interior of their guitars.

I'd like to hear what Richard Brune would have to say about this one. He'd be the first to tell you that the label is the least reliable thing on an instrument.
He once quipped that of the 300 or so Santos Hernandez guitars that were ever made, only 1500 were still thought to exist.

Thanks for all of the input and analysis.
I don't know much about guitars and the guy I got this from sold me an Alvarez acoustic guitar that I originally wanted
and threw this in with a nice Ukelele. They were sitting on top of a high shelf gathering dust.
I didn't think much of this and even thought that it looked old and like some amateurish attempt of do-it yourself project.
Not to knock home-made, but my eye doesn't know what to look for.
My thought was that someone attempted to restore it and just wasn't very good or knowledgeable(steel strings).
I don't doubt the label is real but where it belongs is a mystery.
Or maybe the label was reproduced and then placed inside.

Some more pics with peghead

Is this fellow close enough for you to consult?

http://www.zavaletas-guitarras.com/cont ... ontentID=6

This is most definitely an old Spanish guitar, made in Spain, most likely before 1930.
It's a very humble construction with a "pino" (pine as opposed to cedar or mahogany) neck and what looks like Walnut (used for the cheapest guitars) back and sides. The bridge and fret board look far cruder than any of the original Gonzalez guitars though the body shape and other details does look similar to one. The peghead is not similar to any of the ones I have illustrations of. As stated the label (what is left of it) does seem original.
Perhaps James Greenburg (link provided) who is very knowlegable about these old Spanish guitars could provide you with some additional information.

Yes,
I have contacted him and he said he would take a look.
He is actually on the other side of town, about 20 minutes away.
That is pretty strange convenience.

Please give him my regards and of course let us know what he says!

Ha ha, that's really funny

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

"UPDATE"

Finally got to take the guitar to James Greenburg and let him look at in person.
David, you were pretty accurate with your conclusions.
He thinks it is authentic and probably from around 1870. Their has been some shoddy restoration done to it over the years,
and suggested a proper restoration would be a good idea.
He says it was most likely a basic guitar built for commoners or "gypsies" as he put it.
I really would like to have it restored, so any advice from the forum would be appreciated.