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Keith Robson Tuners
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33398		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  SimonF [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Keith Robson Tuners
Don't get me wrong - I love Waverly tunerss and think they are a great product -- but I have noticed a number of them with "gritty" action (not a big deal as StewMac will send a replacement). However, compared to the ease and feel of the Gotoh 510's, I really don't think the Waverly tuners compete on equal terms. I also think the small oval buttons Waverly uses don't give you as much leverage.

I believe tuning machines are one way for us to separate our instruments in terms of quality. I have tried the handmade tuners by Alessi and Keith Robson. I decided on using Keith Robson as my default tuner because I really like his design and his attention to detail is phenomenal. I definitely feel both of these makers are a noticeable step-up in quality from Waverly and give you a tuning mechanism every bit the equal to the 510's. Additionally, these tuners exude a level of quality that is impressive in comparison to what most of us have been using on our instruments. One way to think about this -- is that our customers are constantly interacting with the tuning machines. I think it makes a great deal of sense to make this aspect of our instruments as excellent as possible.

I have also heard good things about the Schetler's but have never used them. Aesthetically, I don't think they are quite in the same category as the Alessi, Robson, and Rodger's category but they still look very beautiful.

Of course, we have to draw the line somewhere -- I don't include a Hoffee or Karura flight case as my default case (I use Ameritage) but I do feel like the Robson tuners are worth it to me for the extra expense. Just thought I would share my thoughts about these tuning machines.

Best Regards,
Simon

Image
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
Nice looking headstock/tuners Simon!

What a coincidence - I just got an email from Robson the other day to enlighten me about his products. They are indeed beautiful. I will be investigating them further (especially what the price break is for builders).

Cheers,
Dave F.
Author:  acoustic12 [ Thu Sep 01, 2011 11:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
What's the ratio?
Author:  Jeff Highland [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
350 Quid a set! They had better at least buy me breakfast.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
Those are nice looking machines.
It looks like the grain in the buttons is running parallel with the shaft.
Seem like a weak direction to orient the grain. ???
L.
Author:  theguitarwhisperer [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
What's the monetary unit in front of theses things, is that British Pounds?
Author:  SimonF [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
The ratio is 18:1 - which I think for the vast majority of players is the ideal ratio. The prices are in English pounds. Remember guys, these are handmade tuners - just like we charge more for our guitars, the same applies here but the quality is also noticeably better.

Regarding grain direction, it doesn't really matter what direction the grain goes unless the buttons are really thin. The Robson buttons are much thicker than Waverlys and have a great feel to them. With the ease of tuning action, not much force is needed to turn the gears. Also, you would have to throw the buttons in a vise and whack them with a hammer before they would break. So from an engineering standpoint, the grain direction is simply not an issue and the aesthetics of the parallel grain is very nice looking, which is why he does it this way. If you don't like the grain direction, remember these are handmade tuners and Keith can make the buttons however you want.
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
Those are gorgeous. Never heard of them. Thanks for posting that.

I would not be happy with that grain direction either though. Schertler made a batch that way and I returned a set where 2 buttons had split. The last batch I bought, they had changed the grain direction.
Author:  WaddyThomson [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
The classical tuners are beautiful too. A little pricey, but beautiful. I notice he doesn't mention friction resistant rollers on the classical tuners, and I think most of the premium tuners I know have them.
Author:  Link Van Cleave [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
SimonF wrote:
Regarding grain direction, it doesn't really matter what direction the grain goes unless the buttons are really thin. The Robson buttons are much thicker than Waverlys and have a great feel to them. With the ease of tuning action, not much force is needed to turn the gears. Also, you would have to throw the buttons in a vise and whack them with a hammer before they would break. So from an engineering standpoint, the grain direction is simply not an issue and the aesthetics of the parallel grain is very nice looking, which is why he does it this way. If you don't like the grain direction, remember these are handmade tuners and Keith can make the buttons however you want.


Again they are beautiful tuners, the workmanship looks impeccable, and I don't mean to degrade your wonderful tuners, however I can't agree with the statement: "from an engineering standpoint, the grain direction is simply not an issue " If you said, "from a practical standpoint, the grain is not a issue." I might at least consider that to be true but from a "engineering standpoint " the grain is in a weak direction and I would not call that well engineered. Plus ebony can be splity and have weak areas or micro fractures that might never be a issue unless the grain was used in the way it is here.
In use you may be right about it not being a issue. If I were doing it and I wanted the grain to go that direction I would laminate it, not a unreasonable approach for a tuner of this attention to detail and quality.
They look really cool and so does your guitar !
L.
Author:  SimonF [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
Hi Link,
Not to split hairs, but I was under the assumption engineering principles take into account the situational use of the structure under investigation - meaning what constitutes sound principles can vary in response to their real life application. In other words, a house that isn't build to the same standards as a sky scraper does not infer the house is built using inferior methods. (As an aside, I am not an engineer so let's not get too hung up on semantics because I probably don't know what I'm talking about :D ) As I mentioned, the buttons are relatively thick and my gut opinion is that with the button size and shape, the grain direction just isn't a relevant issue. However, if the buttons were thinner, then I would certainly agree that at some point it would definitely become a serious issue. FYI, I have seen photos of the Schertler tuners and I would definitely consider those "thin" buttons and therefore requiring the standard grain orientation.

I will mention to Keith the concern about the grain direction and suggest he rotate the grain by 90 degrees based on some of your thoughts/reactions for his default button. Bear in mind, that Keith makes most of the buttons per order -- so if you want the grain a specific way, make sure you tell him as he can easily accommodate your request.

I really hope some of you get a chance to try these tuners (the Alessi's as well). I think Keith is doing a terrific job and it is really nice to have products like this available.
Author:  SimonF [ Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
Hi Filippo,
I have heard very positive things about the Gilbert tuners. Within the classical world (and steel string slotted headstock tuners), there seems to be more high-end options. Maybe that isn't true but it does seem that way to me. One interesting thing about Keith is that he is really targeting the steel string market. He recently released an enclosed tuner that is almost identical to his open gear design except it has a lightweight aluminum housing. In terms of aesthetics, I think it really shines in comparison to anything else on the closed gear market.

And to everyone in general -- I realize that there are much cheaper alternatives out there that look very nice and are more than functionally adequate. But just like we offer wood upgrades and options, I think it is nice to give the customer access to higher end components. If for nothing else, just offering these (along with other high-end tuners) as an option is probably a good idea.

Thanks for letting me share, everyone!!!

Have a great labor day!!!
Author:  Colin S [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 5:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
I've used Robson tuners on three guitars (my own ones) and they are a quantum leap in quality and function over the Waverleys I used to use, I now use Grover or Rubner unless asked for anything else as I think Waverleys are overpriced in comparison and the current make of Grover or Rubner are their equal in use.

On my classicals I now use Rodgers tuners as standard, as I have found that the type of player that uses my guitars finds them to be the best for consistency and function, though they do run at about $800 a set. As soon as I have one set used I order another. My lower cost alternative are Fustero.

Colin
Author:  Colin S [ Sat Sep 03, 2011 8:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Keith Robson Tuners
No Filippo, I don't use the Rubner classical tuners, only the single steel string ones, then only if asked, which I get them to custom make (small family firm in Germany). If you read my post you'll see that I use Fustero as my cheaper option on classicals which I get for about $500.

Colin
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