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| Sycamore Harp Guitar? https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33231 |
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| Author: | crich [ Tue Aug 16, 2011 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
I've been researching harp guitars and I think I'm ready to give it shot. I have some nice quartered Sycamore, anyone ever hear of a Sycamore harp guitar? I know there's more to the overall sound of a guitar than the species of the back and sides, but can anyone give me some general impressions of sycamore. I'm guessing it's sound is more on the side of walnut? Maybe producing brighter tones, like maple, which should work with a bigger box?  I'm using a Lutz top from Shane. Clinton
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| Author: | cphanna [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 1:02 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
I would guess its properties are much closer to maple than to walnut. It is often a visually beautiful wood. I think it mostly depends on your goals and your personal tastes. I suggest you try it and report back with the results. |
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| Author: | mtracz [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
     Sorry for all the photos... I'm not sure what it will sound like but this may help in the looks dept. I'm about to finish a couple Weissenborn style guitars. One has quartersawn sycamore back and side paired with a western red cedar top. I purchased it from a local (Cleveland Ohio area) guy with a land and a portable mill. It fell on his property a few years ago and it's been drying since. I lucked out! If it sounds half as good as it looks I'll be more than pleased. I'll take better photos of the back if you would like. It has a few sessions of french polish on it now. I say go for it. Good luck and take pictures!!! Best, _Mike |
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| Author: | Corky Long [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Why not? Should make a fine harp guitar. Visually appealing, too. Post pictures when you get there! |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 11:37 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
I think that a harp guitar with a Shane Lutz top and Sycamore (or London Plane as we'd call it here in the UK) b/s will work very well visually and tonally for a harp guitar - I'm assuming you mean a hollow arm Dyer type. I'd say that your guess of walnut/maple spectrum is about right from the London Plane b/s guitars that I've played/heard. |
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| Author: | crich [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
That's a nice looking instrument Mike! Dave, I was hoping you would chime in, given your experience with harp guitars. Yes, I'm designing a hollow arm harp guitar. One of my obstacles have been the sub string lengths. I didn't want to go with any strings larger than .070 because they won't fit in a normal guitar tuner, and drilling or reaming the holes does't sound wise. Clinton |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Sub-bass string lengths or gauge? Not sure that there is any magic to the lengths (leastways, there is a lot of margin) since there are no frets. People do ream the posts. Then there are banjo tuners. And what about the tuners used on bass guitars? Materials should be no different than for a regular guitar. What sounds good for a jumbo or dread should work well for a harp. Mike |
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| Author: | alan stassforth [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Mike! You lucky dog! Allied got some nice sycamore, and I designed a Kona type squareneck, just so I can build one of sycamore. I would love to find a set for a Veissey! |
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| Author: | crich [ Wed Aug 17, 2011 8:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Gauges and lengths should run hand in hand. No? If you want each string to have similar tension. If you tune a normal bass E string down to C, then it's going to get floppy. I haven't decided on which tuning to use on the sub bass strings yet. Then there's the top bracing? Lots to consider....Clinton |
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| Author: | Rick Davis [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:40 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
I've only made around 12 guitars with Amer. sycamore backs and sides. The wood is much closer to mahogany in density, stiffness, and hardness than it is to hard maples. It soaks up glue and finish like a thirsty sponge and moves around a lot with humidity. Personally, I've decided not to use it except for smaller, quieter guitars where its ability to bring some mellowness to the guitar can be useful. I don't think I'd use it for a highly-stressed instrument like a harp guitar. There's too much tension on the back and the length is so great that I'd fear excessive movement and distortion (of the wood, that is). But maybe I'm being too conservative. It's certainly cool looking! |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:10 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Rick, I think you are right about the mahogany analogy - I was thinking more about the softer European maples rather than the harder American varieties. As for the length issue on harp guitars, the hollow arm "box" construction is very strong an rigid - as with the hollow arms of acoustic lap slide instruments. I'd certainly consider it as a candidate but as always it's going to depend on the individual pieces of wood in the hand. |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
crich wrote: Gauges and lengths should run hand in hand. No? If you want each string to have similar tension. If you tune a normal bass E string down to C, then it's going to get floppy. I haven't decided on which tuning to use on the sub bass strings yet. Then there's the top bracing? Lots to consider....Clinton Clinton: If you need longer sub-bass lengths you can always do what Michael Greenfield did on Andy McKee's harp guitar with the separate floating bridge:  The multi-scale approach is also helpful as the bridge continues to give longer sub-bass lengths. I did this on my last two - this Grand Concert sized one:  And on this Baritone harp guitar: 
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Clinton, I agree. They should be roughly the same length, its just that there is, so far as I can tell, no magic formula. Now if there is a rule of thumb, I would LOVE to know it. Dave?? Mike |
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| Author: | Dave White [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Mike O'Melia wrote: Clinton, I agree. They should be roughly the same length, its just that there is, so far as I can tell, no magic formula. Now if there is a rule of thumb, I would LOVE to know it. Dave?? Mike Mike, Did you mean the same tension rather than the same length? For sub-bass strings having chosen the lowest note you want the string to play you want to be aiming for gauges and lengths that give you enough tension in the string to sound "right" - this will be different if you want to play purely acoustic or plugged in (plugged in you can go for lower tensions). I personally wouldn't go much below 20lbs tension per sub-bass string - but I'm playing unplugged. You can use string gauge tension calculators such as this one to work it all out then it's a case of trying it out. |
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| Author: | crich [ Thu Aug 18, 2011 12:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Dave, I'm having trouble with my applett to the string tension calculator to work, however I will get some technical advise from one of my kids. They're better at this stuff then I, but that looks like something I can use. Thanks! Rick, in your opinion, would walnut be a better candidate? Clinton |
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| Author: | Mike OMelia [ Fri Aug 19, 2011 12:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Sycamore Harp Guitar? |
Dave White wrote: Mike O'Melia wrote: Clinton, I agree. They should be roughly the same length, its just that there is, so far as I can tell, no magic formula. Now if there is a rule of thumb, I would LOVE to know it. Dave?? Mike Mike, Did you mean the same tension rather than the same length? For sub-bass strings having chosen the lowest note you want the string to play you want to be aiming for gauges and lengths that give you enough tension in the string to sound "right" - this will be different if you want to play purely acoustic or plugged in (plugged in you can go for lower tensions). I personally wouldn't go much below 20lbs tension per sub-bass string - but I'm playing unplugged. You can use string gauge tension calculators such as this one to work it all out then it's a case of trying it out. Dave, that is good advice. I was thinking it would be baselined off your lowest tuning. The 20 lbs is nice to know. Mike |
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