Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2025 2:47 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:18 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:19 am
Posts: 1597
First name: Richard
Last Name: Hutchings
City: Warwick
State: RI
Zip/Postal Code: 02889
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
How do you hold them? I've had trouble in the past planing mandolin sides. I clamped one end, planed and then turned it around. I don't think this would work well with tops and backs. I was thinking of using rubber on the bench.

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:32 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 pm
Posts: 287
First name: Hugh
Last Name: Anderson
City: Lake Oswego
State: oregon
Really short dogs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 3:54 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2008 6:19 am
Posts: 1597
First name: Richard
Last Name: Hutchings
City: Warwick
State: RI
Zip/Postal Code: 02889
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I wouldn't think a dog sticking up 3/32" would stop the wood from lifting. Plus, I'm not sure how I'd get a dog locked into place that well. What kind of dogs do you use?

_________________
Hutch

Get the heck off the couch and go build a guitar!!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:05 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 8:36 pm
Posts: 287
First name: Hugh
Last Name: Anderson
City: Lake Oswego
State: oregon
I've not done it, but I watched my dad-in-law and it worked fine. The dogs were about an inch square wooden ones. He had 2 and just butted one side against both of them and planed from the opposite side towards the dogs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:30 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 12:00 pm
Posts: 2020
Location: Utah
Hupaand wrote:
I've not done it, but I watched my dad-in-law and it worked fine. The dogs were about an inch square wooden ones. He had 2 and just butted one side against both of them and planed from the opposite side towards the dogs.


This is how I do it, with the addition of clamps on two corners of the top or back. For a "dog" I just use a very thin scrap of mahogany side material I have laying around that is thinner than the piece I'm thicknessing. I clamp it to my bench with two clamps at the end toward which I'll be planing, and then butt the top or back against it. Then I clamp the top/back to the side of the bench with one clamp pretty close to the "dog" so it won't climb over it. I have to rotate the top, as well as shift the clamps holding the dog in place, in order to plane the entire piece. Works for me for now until I get a better setup.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:12 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 2:07 am
Posts: 815
Location: Olympia
First name: Mark
Last Name: Tripp
City: Olympia
State: Washington
Zip/Postal Code: 98506
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Since my stylin' thickness sander is not assembled because of the move (No space for it yet), I just did this. (literally!)

I used a piece of 3/4" MDF larger than the top, and made a bench-hook out of it. I drilled some 1/4" inch holes in the MDF outside the perimeter of the body shape, and indexed them to the top. Then popped some 1/4" dowels in there, of a length that came just below the surface of the top. Worked well.

-Mark

_________________
Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
OR
Find me on Facebook


Last edited by Mark Tripp on Thu Aug 18, 2011 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:18 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:07 pm
Posts: 512
City: Tucson
State: AZ
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
For tops, I'll lay it sideways and plane across the grain to get it levelled/thicknessed/whatever. To hold it, I use two c clamps and rearrange them to get to the spot I need at the moment and plane to the side of them. To smooth them, I do the same thing, just vertically. I'll flip it to do the other side because the grain typically goes different ways on the halves, avoiding the center, then I have a beam with sandpaper on it to get everything finally level. For sides, I stick two smaller c clamps to the other end, plane to the center, then put the same two clamps behind where I need to plane. For figured woods, I scrape the sides so there's no worries with the plane hitting the clamps.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:03 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:31 pm
Posts: 1682
First name: Kevin
Last Name: Looker
City: Worthington
State: OH
Zip/Postal Code: 43085
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Clamp end that's closest to you to the bench so that the plane doesn't crash into the clamp then shift the clamp.

I've also used double stick tape (the kind that's like masking tape, not carpet tape).

Either way is tedious but they worked for me.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:50 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 2712
First name: ernest
Last Name: kleinman
City: lee's summit
State: mo
Zip/Postal Code: 64081
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
A scrub plane can with proper usage bring down a 3/16in plate very quickly to dimension. You can make a dedicated jig with small locking wedges on one side to hold the plates together while you plane them


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:10 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:59 pm
Posts: 3621
First name: Dennis
Last Name: Kincheloe
City: Kansas City
State: MO
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hey Ernie, do scrub planes work on figured and/or interlocked grain? Tops usually go quickly in any case, but it still takes me a good while to shave down mahogany and rosewood, and I haven't even tried curly grain yet. I usually use my block plane with toothed blade (wide teeth, created by cutting 4 notches into it), which helps to minimize tearing and keep depth consistent, but I still have to take pretty fine shavings. Tears are usually small and consistent enough that I can stop a few thousandths from where I want to be and scrape smooth.

My usual pattern for tops and backs is to put two clamps on one half of the plate, and plane on the other half at 45 degree angles (first pass leaves ridges from the teeth, second pass removes them). Since runout changes at the centerline, I never cross it by much anyway, so the clamps are out of the way. Then unclamp, rotate 180 degrees, and repeat on the other side. Sometimes things get uneven and you have to do an extra pass or two in a small area, but most of the time it goes pretty smoothly.

For sides, clamp one end, plane straight along the grain starting around the middle, clamp the other end, plane starting at the middle. Then do a pass with the split point more like 1/3 of the way from one end. Keep varying the split point so you don't develop a consistent high or low spot in the center. And if it doesn't like being planed straight along the grain, do two angled passes at a time instead.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 7:13 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 2712
First name: ernest
Last Name: kleinman
City: lee's summit
State: mo
Zip/Postal Code: 64081
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Dennis , hi scrub planes IMHO work best on plain grain .Though I have used the scrub on elm wood for chairs. You can regrind the radius on an old smooth cheapie yardsale plane . That/s how I started.Or take that piece of hornbeam with a hock or jap blade and you will have a great scrub plane. Plans are easy, quite a few books in library on making handplanes.After using scrub follow through with a good smoother or jack to true up your surface. Also hardwoods like mahog and EIR need a higher angle 30 deg while cedar spruce etc need a very sharp 25 deg or less angle to cut cleanly. I recommend anthony guidice/s book 7 steps or something on the essentials of handtools (library) very controversial but also very practical. Would love to read those somogyi books for a weekend Perhaps we can do a swap?? regards ernie PS if you have a lot of tearout switch to a stanley #80 scraper plane I have several, or a lie-nelson scraperblade


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:43 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:57 am
Posts: 544
Location: Auchtermuchty, Fife, Scotland
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I tried this recently and seem to work... I planed a the edges of the top/back to create a slight taper (eg the width at the upper bout end is about 10mm less than at the lower bout. Then just used some thin (2mm) offcuts doublesided taped to the bench at the same taper and wedge the top/back between them and away you go - I just got too frustrated having to move the clamp all the time and it made it more difficult to keep track of teh areas done in nice even passes... so far this has been a great method (well one top done) ;)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:57 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 36
Location: San Diego, CA
Todd Stock wrote:
Plane sides in tension...using a stop is a good way to shatter a side as it buckles. I clamp the end of the plate and work across until within .015 or so, the clamp one side and work each half to the center.

Rather than a scrub plane, a slightly curved blade in a jack will take things down quickly enough to make hand planing practical. Differential pressure during sharpening (ten strokes with finger pressure centered, 10 strokes with load on left side of blade, ten strokes right side, etc.) will give you a nicely radiused blade that will not leave any tracks from sharp edges, and when set a little coarser, will take stuff down quickly.


Hi! Todd,
I have always wanted to ask this question.
Once I create the slight curve on the blade, can the blade still be used for shooting the edge for jointing the top and back?

thank you.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:19 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 10:06 pm
Posts: 36
Location: San Diego, CA
Thank you so much Todd !!
These information is just what i needed.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2011 7:26 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 6:53 pm
Posts: 80
Location: North Texas
First name: Orion
Last Name: Adcock
City: North
State: TX
Zip/Postal Code: 76210
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
A small piece of double sided tape under the side your planing away from works wonders as long as the substrate is flat.

_________________
No one appreciates the very special genius of your conversation as the dog does.
Christopher Morley


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 17 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com