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60mm piezo??
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17900		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  curtis [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  60mm piezo??
Hi,
i have a customer that is in need of a piezo pick up that is no longer than 60mm for a gibson with bridge screws either side of the saddle....
i cant think of anything that short, any ideas?
my only other answer is an ibeam, but he'd prefer a normal piezo.

is i possible to cut one down? i've never done it - and i dont realy want to experiment with a new matrix infinity!

thanks,
steve
Author:  curtis [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
ok - i've wiped my own butt for once, the baggs element can be cut down apparently,

thanks
Author:  David Collins [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 8:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
No, the old Baggs ribbon transducer can be cut down. The baggs element I have not cut before, but I know they don't intend it to be cuttable, and I would be concerned with potential damage when resoldering the cut end.

Still, it will work fine for that saddle width out of the box - there's no need for it to be cut to exact length. I also always drill in to the far end of the slot (especially important on short saddles) as well. And if you have a 1/2" of active transducer extending past the bridge plate, it's not going to hurt anything.
Author:  TonyKarol [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
isnt the element a coax cable type piezo ??? if so, then you only use as much as needed. There is a Dtar PU that is like this as well ....

Or, call Dieter at K&K.. likely he can make you one.
Author:  David Collins [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 9:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
It is a coax piezo (I believe), but doesn't look the same as things like the highlander. The active area is a wider and flatter (perhaps a coax piezo or some other film transducer stuffed inside another outer braid??), and soldered shut on the end, with the last 1/4" or so inactive. My concern would be possibility of melting or otherwise damaging parts of the pickup in resoldering the end. I've cut apart about every other pickup from old Barcus Berry's to iBeams, but I've never cut up one of these because there's never been a reason to - they work perfectly in a saddle slot this size.

You could also call the tech support at Baggs. They are incredibly helpful, and I've always gotten someone on the phone who really knows the products inside and out. Or look in to the DTar Wavelength. That transducer appears to be the same as the Element, but with a different preamp approach (more headroom, more flexibility). Maybe Rick Turner will jump in to answer some questions here.
Author:  curtis [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
David Collins wrote:
Still, it will work fine for that saddle width out of the box - there's no need for it to be cut to exact length. I also always drill in to the far end of the slot (especially important on short saddles) as well. And if you have a 1/2" of active transducer extending past the bridge plate, it's not going to hurt anything.

thanks guys,

thats perfect, i got straight back to the customer and he's heading in with it this week - as you say i dont have to cut it anyway it should work out fine.

i would very much love to try the new dtar but its a tad slow getting this stuff into the uk.

the thing about the saddle slot is that it has a raise- able screw thread either side (this is the 60mm) so drilling the other side might not be possible, unless it rises up into the slot and then back down out the other end? It might turn out that its not possible due to this if the whole thing
excuse my ignorance with this, i seem to sell endless fishman matrix and have very little requests for much else. I have started to stock the ibeam full time now though after hearing it the other month...not 100% convinced on sticking a pick up in with a sticky pad though.... If it was going a few times around the country in a shaky old van i'd have my fingers crossed pretty tightly.
Author:  Mark Swanson [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
How do you plan to install an undersaddle pickup in a bridge like that? Where will you place the pickup so the adjustable saddle can bear on it?
Those Gibsons can really benefit from a bridge replacement and removal of that hardware. Then you wouldn't have any problem installing the pickup, either. People are always worried about keeping the guitar "original" but replacing one of those lame bridges isn't seen as a bad thing to do- you have a better guitar in the end.
Author:  David Collins [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
Oh, whoa, hang on a minute. Sorry. oops_sign

I guess I didn't read your first post very well, and assumed you were talking about the hold-down screws at the ends of the bridge pin line. (I suppose the fact that you were concerned about them in relation to the pickup should have told me otherwise).

Adjustable saddle bridge, okay. No, you can't use any under saddle transducer on there unless you repair the horrible design and plug and route for a new saddle, or replace the bridge as Mark said. Top transducers can work, but the results are a bit unpredictable on that design in my experience and you can often end up with a pretty crappy bass or mid-range heavy tone.

I'd say either replace the bridge then choose a saddle transducer, or go with something like the Baggs M1A.
Author:  Hesh [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
curtis wrote:
ok - i've wiped my own butt for once, the baggs element can be cut down apparently,

thanks


Well for once no one here is asking for pictures......... :D
Author:  Geordie Adams [ Mon Jul 07, 2008 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
hi all
Mark S you are right about the benefits of replacing saddle and screws, I did that, put a new bone saddle on a ‘60 Gibo.
The only way to do a UST on them, EMG if I recall which you could not cut.
The owner was very happy with the results, he was a local pub band rock an’ blues guy and he noticed an appreciable difference in tone / volume.
Obviously he kept the original bits to replace if he ever wanted to sell it.
I think the saddle was some king of ceramic if memory serves!!!.
yours Geordie
Hesh - Hesh
Author:  curtis [ Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
Hey guys,
this is what i meant to post last night after i'd read Mark Swanson very good post, (never hit the send key when an old friend called):
_______________________________________________________________________________
you know what Mark, i didn't even really think that far ahead - i havent seen the guitar yet and barely remember what it is - Gibson sj200 possibly....my fault - my clean up!
i'm hoping to just leave the screw threads in and fit a permanent saddle at the right height, maybe make an insert if required.
He can then put it back in anytime if he wants it to be more original to sell or whatever, all be it with a little effort. but in the mean time it should look good and be useful to boot.

I'd also rather he put a new bridge on but i could tell from the phone call that isn'tt on the cards.


without having seen it I'm aware it can be a non-starter but its likely that i can persuade the customer to make it work. As much as i love gibsons, adjustable bridges and their standard non-matching bridge to neck radius always leaves me scratching my head a bit...who am i to critisce them though!
_______________________________________________________________________________


over the years i'm getting used to finding a solution to these non-standard p/up installs, i've had similar things with over engineered takamine's - and it looks like i'm going to either have to do the same or let the guy down....as a safety net i didn't promise him it'd work, i just said that the distributor told me it could be cut down and i'd ordered one with no obligation for him.

thanks everyone for the concern - it means a lot that people of your status take time out to save my skinny behind!!

and Hesh....perish the thought...and burn the camera...it'd have a cracked lens anyway :shock:
Author:  Mark Swanson [ Wed Jul 09, 2008 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
Good luck with it, Chris and I am glad if I helped you out at all!
Author:  curtis [ Thu Jul 10, 2008 7:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 60mm piezo??
Mark Swanson wrote:
Good luck with it, Chris and I am glad if I helped you out at all!



Thanks Mark, you certainly did help me out - much appreciated!

As luck would have it the guy has just been in and its all looking good for him- he's a precision engineer and is very happy to fit it himself, so as long as it does the job it's all good.

Co-incidently, as we were chatting about engineering (we're both trained as a lathe/ milling engineer) he mentioned that he does a lot of custom spraying in nitro etc - which is exactly what i'm looking for. He's had plenty in custom car magazines etc and his work looks excellent. Anyway we seem to be getting along like a house on fire so thats the one part of my business that i've been lacking in sewn up to boot!

You've got to be lucky sometimes, law of averages eh!?

thanks again, cant tell you how much i apprciate all the help,
all the best,
steve
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