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Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=17335		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  David R White [ Sat May 24, 2008 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Here is my latest, number 8. I feel that I struggle sometimes with the aesthetic design, so please give me some suggestions and criticisms. What do you think?

The guitar is a Pau Rosa back/sides/fretboard/headplate/bridge, Khaya neck, Sitka top, cherry rosette. It's close to an OM in size, with smaller upper bout and gentler waist. It has a brushed shellac finish.

I'm pretty happy with the sound, each one seems to get better and I believe I'm able to control the sound I am aiming for. This one has a very deep and round bottom end and nice fat trebles.

I think the Pau Rosa is a beautiful wood. It is hard and heavy with a nice ring to it, tonally it is more like a Rosewood than a Mahogany. I believe Bob has some for sale.

Rod, this is the same wood that I traded you in the OLF swap meet. I hope you like it as well.

Some pics.
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat May 24, 2008 7:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Looks invisible!
Author:  Don Williams [ Sat May 24, 2008 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
That's better! It definitely has that "red" theme to it. I like it. How do you like the shellac finish? I did one a long time ago, but someone wrecked it with a pick and I had to replace the finish with urethane.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Sat May 24, 2008 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Pretty good overall. I've got a couple of minor suggestions. On a smaller guitar, I think a smaller rosette looks more balanced. Also, your bridge looks like the pins are crowded up against the saddle. I would move them back 1/4" or so and then cut ramps for the strings.
Author:  SniderMike [ Sat May 24, 2008 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
I think it looks very nice. That sapwood on the back is really cool, and I like how you carried it into the heelcap.

I do agree that the rosette looks a litte big, although I do like its design and it looks very well executed.

I might like to see a little more contrast somewhere, like the bridge pins which I really like the look of. Maybe not though. The back of the bridge looks a little chucky too, but maybe that's part of your tonal strategy.

Overall, I think it's really cool and unique. Great job!
Author:  Jim Kirby [ Sat May 24, 2008 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Nice combination of color tones overall, although I have this personal bias that fretboards should be black. (Just me.) My critique was the same as Todd's - particularly the really gradual transition from heel to neck. Looks chunky.

Is Pau Rosa the same thing as Pau Ferro?

Jim
Author:  Hesh [ Sat May 24, 2008 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
I like it David my friend - a great deal.

What is happening in the sound hole area inside - when I look at the edges of the sound hole I think that I am seeing a lamination, kind of Lowdenish, with a black layer?

Overall I like it a great deal and it looks like a very cool guitar.

Nice job! [:Y:] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap] [clap]
Author:  LiquidGabe [ Sat May 24, 2008 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
I don't think you have any issues with aesthetics (except maybe self-confidence). That is a very nice looking guitar! Of course, as someone who just started a thread on solid color tops, you may have a hard time with my compliments.

I love the warm tone throughout, the sapwood, and I don't have any issues with a lack of contrast. Its unique, and that is exactly what I love about hand-built guitars - personality. My only criticism, as was mentioned earlier, is the transition from neck to heel. The visual weight of it robs a little elegance, even for a first-position guy like me.
Author:  douglas ingram [ Sat May 24, 2008 10:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Well, seeing as you asked. I like the overall look.

I agree that the heel is just too big, including the transition to the neck. For that kind of heel, I really like what Selmer did. The rosette is nice, maybe just a little wide, but feels like a classical in scale, so that's OK by me. The bridge is just a little chunky, too. Not really thrilled about the sapwood in the back, but that's just me, I never do like it much. But you treadted it well by carrying it into the heelcap.

These are all things that can be adjusted if you choose.
Author:  Dave Fifield [ Sat May 24, 2008 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
What they said about the guitar....

It's not the guitar aesthetics I question, it's the HOUSE! wow7-eyes
You live in a PINK house with a PINK deck? :shock:

JK ya! :D

Dave F.
Author:  martinedwards [ Sun May 25, 2008 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
aint personal taste great?

I LOVE the look of this.

the rosette is BEAUTIFUL and for me, it's a great size!!

the colours are all great, and I like the colourse fretboard.

yes the heel looks a little chunky, adn I agree that the pins might be better a hair farther back from the saddle, but it's BEAUTIFUL!!!!

bear in mind that this is critique from other builders, and if you took this to the metalheads in your local GC they'd be STUNNED that anyone could actually make a guitar!!

well done!!
Author:  Alain Desforges [ Sun May 25, 2008 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Hey Dave! How are you my good man? I'm glad to see you've finished another beautiful guitar! For those of you who haven't had the pleasure of trying one of Dave's very fine instruments, I can atest to the fact that they sound and play wonderfully!

I really like the lamination in the soundhole. Very cool! I think I'll have to borow that! :D

I also really like that segmented rosette and I've always been a sucker for sapwood...

Cheers,
Author:  David R White [ Sun May 25, 2008 8:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Thanks for your comments, the criticisms are very valuable to me. I see the points being made on the rosette and neck heel. The bridge pins look more spaced in real life, this may just be the way the photo angle. Perhaps the back of the bridge could be tapered more.

Regarding contrast, this was something I gave quite a bit of thought to, I agonised over whether to use the Pau Rosa for fretboard and bridge as well. To bring some contrast I have included quite a few purfling lines that may not be so obvious in the photos, in the soundhole, in the fretboard binding, underneath the fretboard, headplate and heelcap, as well as a black (BRW) laminate under the bridge.

Don, I love the shellac, it is very difficult to photograph the finish but it is deep and warm. I hope it holds up well. Even though I am brushing, with care you can get a very flat and glossy surface.

Jim, Pau Rosa is not the same as Pau Ferro.

Hesh, yes the soundhole is laminated, in place of soundhole bracing.

Dave, I guess you wouldn't like my pink car!

Alain, I was really trying to get this finished for our get together but it couldn't be.
Author:  Sam Price [ Sun May 25, 2008 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
No complaints here. I have played and examined hundreds of acoustic guitars, and this one is absolutely stunning. Superb work.
Author:  Rod True [ Sun May 25, 2008 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
David that sure looks nice. I'm really looking forward to using my Pau Rosa one day. The color in it is amazing.

I tend to like stark contrasts so I would have made the FB, bridge, bindings and headstock veneer from darker woods, maybe EIR or Brazilian would have been nice. But that's just me.

I sure like the soundhole laminations too. I wouldn't have made a lamination on the bottom of the bridge though (that's what it looks like anyway). Although it does tie in with the side and back wood.

These are of course personal taste opinions.

As Al said already, It's a player I'm sure. Having played one of David's guitars (it can even make a sucky player like me sound good) I can attest to them sounding and playing even better than they look (and they sure look good).

Nice job David, does this mean though that Heather gets more shoes :D
Author:  KenH [ Sun May 25, 2008 6:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
I really like the contrasting colors between all of the woods used. It is a gentle contrast instead of a bold one, but very mellow looking. The rosette is beautiful and I like the look of the laminated soundhole too.

The color scheme reminds me of a pair of well worn pair of desert boots I had back in the 70's. One of the most comfortable pair of shoes I ever owned. This make me comfortable with the guitar before I even pick it up to play it. Personally I love the contrast with the sapwood also.
Author:  SniderMike [ Sun May 25, 2008 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
The laminated soundhole and bridge are both really cool. I didn't notice those before.
Author:  Dave Anderson [ Mon May 26, 2008 9:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Dave,The more I look at this guitar the more I like it. It just looks like a guitar that
wants to be played, a lot. I also like the soundhole lam. This ones got a mellow vibe to it!
Nice job !
Author:  John Mayes [ Mon May 26, 2008 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
squarish heels are not a problem as ToddStock says. It's transitions that make or break it. I use a square style heel (I was influenced by graceful froggy bottoms)

Image

I think the guitar looks cool. I can't comment on aesthetics cause that's a personal taste. Looks like the bridge pins could be moved back a little, and seems like the bridge to top glue is a little rough, but that's hard to pull off. Overall I like it. You've done a fine job.
Author:  James Orr [ Mon May 26, 2008 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
Hey Dave

A lot of the guys here like it, and I think that says something very positive. The headstock, fretboard, and bridge make it a bit too monochromatic to me. I would prefer darker values there if you want to stay with the reds and browns.
Author:  Bob Long [ Mon May 26, 2008 11:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
I really love the look of this guitar, David! I'm a big fan of the "One Board - One Guitar" approach to design... I think you nailed it in regards to that look.

notes...
The sapwood back is cool... but I'd like the stripe narrower and maybe a little tapered.
Back of the bridge would be better ramped... like others said.
I think some kind of inlay on the headstock would be good...I have left mine naked on one or two guitars, but only when the overlay has some really distinctive figure.
I like the rosette a lot... not to big for me.
Sound hole veneer ......... Excellent!!

long
Author:  Kent Chasson [ Mon May 26, 2008 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
I agree that looks are subjective but there are certainly issues where there is broad agreement. Most people look at a handmade guitar and comment on how beautiful it is but one of my favorite compliments was when I took a guitar to a music store and the owner said something to the effect of "Well, it all works together...nothing wonky about it".

It's kind of like first aid. First priority is to do no harm and make sure there is nothing wonky. I tend to think about shapes first since colors and trim are more easily adjusted to suit the client.

Personally I'm not fond of the Martin square shoulder, square butt look so I like the way you rounded out the body. But without the square shoulders and square bridge, I would also avoid the square headstock. Or go more traditional all the way around.

I noticed an interesting thing at Healdsburg last year. I was next to Jimmy Caldwell and he had a couple of his really sweet Martin style small body guitars. Mine are more contemporary. There were a ton of people who would scan around then suddenly latch on and make a bee line to one or the other. We were both getting great responses but seldom from the same people. I was hearing a lot of my favorite words like "clean" and "elegant" and "works together". I couldn't hear as much of what people were saying to Jimmy but I could see them light up just looking at the guitars like they were flooded with 50 years worth of Martin guitar memories. It's pretty cool what the sight of guitars can evoke in people before they even play them. I guess all that is to say that design is important and getting feedback is worth pain.
Author:  David R White [ Tue May 27, 2008 6:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Critique Please - David White's Pau Rosa OMish
This has been great feedback everyone. Some things I had thought of myself and some that I never would have. Thanks!
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