Official Luthiers Forum!

I applied z-poxy on a my latest build (number 3) on Saturday and yesterday (and today) I didn't feel well. I was wondering if I poisoned myself. Since it doesn't have a strong smell I didn't think too much about using it in my music room (spare bedroom). Anybody have any comments? Is z-poxy harmful?

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Steve,
Here's a link to the MSDS ( material Safety Data Sheet ) on Z-Poxy.

www.barnesonline.com.au/msds/ZAP%20-%20 ... 0Resin.pdf

If you think your not well, you should seek medical attention.

Hope your feeling better soon.

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Jim Watts
http://jameswattsguitars.com

Thanks Jim,
I should have thought to look at the MSDS.

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Steve buddy I know that epoxy can be a sensitizer and some folks are allergic to it. In terms of being sick what are you experiencing?

And - feel better soon buddy!

Thanks for your concern. I'm not seriously ill. ...just not feeling great. I thought that maybe it was using the z-poxy without much ventilation. Of course MSDSs consider virtuly evething hazardous. If it stings your skin or would hurt if it gets in your eyes... It looks like the z-poxy didn't likely make me not feel well. It must have been something else. On the other hand, I have been getting a rash lately on the inside of my arms. I'm wondering if that is a wood alergy or something....

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I spent ten years as a science paralegal in a chemical product liability practice. I've read LOTS of MSDSs. There are strict rules for what must be included on them. Many manufacturers are very thorough, others are not. It is not unusual for someone to have a reaction to epoxy. I recently had a reaction to ziricote. I had noticed on a previous build with it that I didn't feel great after sanding it, but it passed so I didn't think anything of it. This time, my eyes puffed up, I had a mild rash, etc. It turns out that the exact same compound that is in bolivian rosewood (to which I have an extreme allergy) is also in ziracote.

If you're reacting, if you didn't feel right after using the epoxy, then I'd procede with caution -- use it in a well ventilated room (which you should anyway), wear a full facemask with carbon filters as you would in the paint booth, as well as gloves and long sleeve shirts while using and sanding the stuff. Epoxies give off amines as they cure, and you will get amine exposure. Although epoxy cures to the touch relatively quickly, it may be two weeks before its fully cured. Sanding before its cured can expose you to the amines. As a precaution, keep some benadryl handy. If you don't feel right again, seek medical attention and stop using the product.

West Systems has an epoxy safety page you might want to look at:
http://www.westsystem.com/webpages/userinfo/safety/000-574.pdf

I looked at Pacer's site and their information isn't as developed as West's.

David D. Berkowitz
Berkowitz Guitars

I`ve used it several times with absolutely no ventilation.I don`t think it can do much harm.
James W b

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Steve ( I like that name) Hope you feel better. By any chance did you eat any jalepenos recently?
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25786579/

Take care of yourself,

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Steve Walden
Aspiring Builder,
Bartlesville, OK

From the "Part B" MSDS... Respiratory Protection (Specify Type): Organic vapor respirator to avoid inhalation of mist or vapor. A properly fitted respirator could save many years of poor health... Some people are very sensitive to these exotic chemical mixes...

I got a dizzy head from epoxy, and I was holding my breath when I used it. Use a silcone based mask, and let the silicone mask be exposed to air for a month or 2 as even that off gasses, specially if its made in China, who knows what they are putting in things.

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

James, the warnings are general. That you haven't had a reaction says less about the substance than about your own genetic predispositions, and/or delayed reaction.

For example, as a chemist at Merck in the 1950's my father used to wash his labwear in benzene. From a toxicology standpoint, the very earliest articles suggesting benzene toxicity didn't come out until 1956 or thereabouts and no one paid attention. We now know that benzene causes AML a/k/a acute myelogenous leukemia. It also is suspected to cause aplastic anemia and multiple myeloma. My father is a bouncing 88 years old and in as good a health as someone that age can be. Our family is predisposed to heart disease and stroke and not so much cancer. Another person with the same exposure likely would develop AML.

I'm not trying to harp, but your posting was a little bit of, I haven't had a reaction therefore its safe. That's not something we should be suggesting here.

David D. Berkowitz
Berkowitz Guitars

There were real problems with the layup of the stealth planes B2 and F117 because of off gassing. They have everybody suited up and masked now but some people had real problems. Probably no different than some of the tropical woods used often in luthiery.

I seem to be allergic to just about everything but don't seem to have much problem with epoxy.

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Billy Dean Thomas
Covina, CA

"Multi famam, conscientiam, pauci verentur."
(Many fear their reputation, few their conscience)