Any first time builders experience the first time you string the guitar and it sounds bad. I think i hear potential but i am scared to death. I know it needs to open up but i would love some feedback please.
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| first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} https://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=16630 |
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| Author: | ike [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Any first time builders experience the first time you string the guitar and it sounds bad. I think i hear potential but i am scared to death. I know it needs to open up but i would love some feedback please.
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Describe what you hear wrong. Is it off pitch within chords or is it in the coloration of the tone? If in the coloration of the tone don’t do anything yet. Wait to see if how it sounds next week and the week after take notes as you play it so you have a reference to draw on next week. If it is pitch issues go through the intonation and re proof. Things move under first tension. Also make sure strings are not binding in the nut and that the balls of the strings are seated out against the bridge plate and saddle is flushed out to bottom of the bridge/saddle slot. Always look for restrictions first and mechanical issues second. |
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| Author: | ike [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Thank you for the response. its not a tuning thing. the sound is thin and and bright. I pretty sure the strings are seated, could be a nut issue but i don't think so. Have you experienced a bad sound at first |
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| Author: | Michael Dale Payne [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
ike wrote: Thank you for the response. its not a tuning thing. the sound is thin and and bright. I pretty sure the strings are seated, could be a nut issue but i don't think so. Have you experienced a bad sound at first Thin and bright let it open before you make a conclusion. If after two weeks it is still lacking color and power in the bass side we can address the fact the top may be braced a bit to heavy and what to do about it. What wood were used? |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Odds are that it's way overbuilt, as are most newbie's.... |
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| Author: | Alain Desforges [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Ike, I too have had the exact same experience as you. And not many more times either... Still, it always amazes how crappy a freshly strung up guitar will sound. No volume, no projection or sustain...hardly any tone... Like Michael says, give it some time. I've noticed a huge difference just in the first few hours and even the first few days. My advice? Play the heck out of it. If it doesn't sound better in a week or so, it's probably over-braced. |
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| Author: | stan thomison [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Agree with Mairo. If feel can thin it some might try it, but probably better to keep it and learn from that build for the next one. How thick top, back and sides and what kind and thickness and heigth of braces, how big thick bridge plate etc? What materials and was it scratch or kit? That may help with others in advice as if overbuilt or maybe other problem. |
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| Author: | ike [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
wow u guys are awesome. I feel alot better. It could be overbuilt, but not the top. It feels heavy to me. It was a Lmi kit. I scalloped the braces on the top. The back braces are mahogany, i think that would make it heavier. Again thank you all for your wisdom ![[clap]](./images/smilies/smiley32.gif "adulations") . I will let you know in a week. Time to start the next one, maybe i will get it right this time.
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| Author: | Frei [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Did you take any pics, or do you have a soundclip available? ![[:Y:]](./images/smilies/smiley20.gif "Thumbs Up")
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| Author: | fryovanni [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:32 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
You need to pay attension to this one(actually every one you build), and the performance. It will give you guidence on the next one( whether this one sounds wonderful, or not so much. this is how you gain experience to carry to the next). It would be handy if you shared some details, as right now your not going to get any meaningful advise short of "yep you could be right". |
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| Author: | Hesh [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
I agree with fryovanni - you are not going to get anything meaningful to learn from here or from your current guitar unless you can be more specific on what the results are that you are not happy with. "Thin and bright" is pretty general - what else do you hear AND feel? Typically a new guitar will lack some bass until it opens up - how are the mids, are the trebles clear, any buzzing, how do notes sound played half way and all the way up the neck? How's the volume? I had one guitar that sounded terrible when I first strung it up. It freaked me out and what I heard was it sounded like it was out of tune. The electronic tuner, two of them in fact, had trouble registering what notes this guitar was tuned to...... I was devastated, put it down, came back an hour later and it tuned better. I checked the intonation and it was right on so I played it for a while and seemingly before my eyes this guitar started playing in tune and sounding great. Now a days it sounds fine and I still have no idea why it sounded terrible (out of tune) when I first built it...... As the others mentioned some guitars if not most will benefit from opening up over time played. |
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| Author: | ike [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 6:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
I will learn how to upload pictures and a sound clip(im an idiot when it comes to that stuff). The one thing that has been eating me alive is my neck joint. I tried to do a dovetail but i had to shim it. I glued it and i bolted it on. if its not perfect inside the joint does that make a huge difference( im sure it does ). Anyway i am playing the hell out of it right now. The sixth string sounds awesome, lack of bass in trebles. It still really cool to play something you have made, even if it is an ugly duckling. |
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| Author: | Jody [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Ike what type of strings did you use ? i like phosphore bronze .. but almost every decent sounding guitar I have ever strung up with those sounded terrible , thats very thin, brash, and tinny ( to me ) for the first week or so. Jody |
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| Author: | ike [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
I used a bronze wound, there were cheap though(darco). I normally use elixir nanowebs, which will eventually make their way to this guitar. I teach and play alot so i need something that will maintain their brightness( i play a taylor ) I guess only time will tell if this guitar will make it. Its all about sound for me, i can live with bad playability. I just hope it starts to project alittle. When the sixth string isn't ringing it sound like im inside a tin can. |
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| Author: | Mike Lindstrom [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
I strung up my first a month or two ago. Posted mostly the same question. Had bass, but was real soft sounding. Grumpy said, "Begin by playing the crap out of it for a few weeks, and don't be gentle. You need to wake it up before you judge it. The bottom end is most often the last part to chine-in... Other than that, it could be one of 1,000,000 possible scenarios <g> That is why we can never build just one..." as did most others. And they were right. It got a lot better. (I did have a little bit of crud underneath the saddle. I cleaned out the bridge slot and flattened and squared the bottom of the saddle better. That helped too.) Don't freak out. Just play it. You made a guitar and that's pretty cool. How many people do you know playing their own guitar? It'll probably get better, but if it doesn't, you can worry about it in a month or so. For now, you should be celebrating. Miek |
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| Author: | ike [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Miek thank u for putting things into perspective for me. I need to be realistic about this. I made it to play it, the next im making to play as well. I guess no matter how many books and Dvds you have it will come down to exsperience and trial and error. Oh well it will be a good conversation tonight as i celebrate what i feel is an accomplishment. Cheers friends! |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
I suspect it is overbuilt... no worries. Everyone goes through this... but somethign to check. Is your saddle square and dead bottomed out in the slot? Is it tight in the bridge? |
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| Author: | John How [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
There are things that can be done thru the hole to lighten the braces but go slowly. You might try puting heavier gauge strings on it for now. |
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| Author: | KenH [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Cheer up my friend, it can be fixed. I would agree that it is most likely overbraced, but that isnt the end of the world as you can always shave off braces after it has seasoned for a bit. The advice to play the stuffings out of it for a couple of weeks is good advice also. In most cases, during the first 2 weeks of playing the wood will move some anyway and you will need to tweak the setup after it has settled down. My first thoughts on reading what you are experiencing is the same as one above.....check the saddle slot to make sure that it is clean, flat, and the saddle well bottomed out and tight in the slot. Make sure the ball ends of the strings are bottomed out on the bridge plate. I dont think you said, but what did you use for the nut and saddle material? If it is bone, it is possible that the bone you got was too soft. If it is plastic, then change it out for a good piece of bone. When you say that the high e is bright and good volume but the rest are dead, this tends to lead me to the conclusion that it is a saddle issue....either not flat on the bottom or not seated correctly or some crud in the slot. Keep hammering the guitar, it will wake up! |
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| Author: | Michael Jin [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
Do you have any pictures that were taken during the building process? If it is indeed overbraced or something, I would think posting a photo might help some of the more experienced members get a better idea of what exactly is going on. Dunno... best wishes to you. I hope it all works out. ^^ Keep us updated. |
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| Author: | grumpy [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
There's more to being "overbuilt" than weight or brace size or top thickness. You can have wickedly scalloped braces on a thin top and still be overbraced if the brace pattern doesn't allow free movement. In the dame train of thought, we can have non-scalloped braces and still have wonderful tone, if we chose the top and brace pattern to work with it. Unless you give up exact specs on everything, there's NO WAY anyone can point to anything in order to help out. There's millions of combinations, any one of which can make or break the whole. |
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| Author: | McCollum [ Fri Mar 28, 2008 11:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
I'm sorry, but I never went through that process - the one of hating the first guitars. It wasn't quite the sound I was looking for, but it just made me want to make another one to see if I could find it. And I wasn't looking for a Martin style sound, or anybody elses. But the one thing I did have was a mentor who spot-checked me through the build. Someone that I could bounce ideas off of, even though I did all the work myself. So what I would suggest is that you find an experienced guitar maker within driving distance and have him take a look at the guitar. See what he points out. And make him/her be brutally honest about the flaws and mistakes. Write it down. Some you may be able to fix. Some you may just have to wait until the next guitar to get it right. If you want to get good at this you have to solicite critiques. When I show guitars to artists, I don't ask them what they like about the guitar, I ask them what they don't like. Good luck, Lance http://www.mccollumguitars.com |
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| Author: | Frei [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
How thick was the top, what kind of wood How thick were the braces What style guitar At least thats a starter! 
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| Author: | Alan Carruth [ Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
What Mario said, and again, what Mario said. There's no way any of us can give you much guidance without knowing where you are, and the only way we'll find that out is with much more information. Probably you don't have it: that's not unusual. It took me a long time to get to the point of writing stuff down. You'll find as you go along that records of what you did will be your best tools, unless you have a much better memory than most of us! The difference between 'poor' and 'good' guitars is often in the details, and the differences between 'good' and 'great' are in the really tiny details! If you didn't keep good records on this one, do yourself a favor and do it with the next one. |
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| Author: | ike [ Sun Mar 30, 2008 11:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: first guitar just strung up{ sounds terrible} |
This is great info. I didn't write everything down but i will start doing it. How can a begginer gain insight into tap tuning. When i tapped on my soundboard it sounded good( i think ) I don't know any makers in my area that would be willing to help Northern Kentucky/ Cincinnati. |
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