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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:24 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Purchased one of these, the .013" file to evaluate and I hate it....

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MN675--musicnomad-mn675-16-piece-diamond-coated-nut-file-complete-shop-set?mrkgadid=3331288121&mrkgcl=28&mrkgen=gpla&mrkgbflag=0&mrkgcat=guitars&acctid=21700000001645388&dskeywordid=92700046938600877&lid=92700046938600877&ds_s_kwgid=58700005283398302&ds_s_inventory_feed_id=97700000007215323&dsproductgroupid=413713024518&product_id=MN675&prodctry=US&prodlang=en&channel=online&storeid=&device=c&network=g&matchtype=&adpos=largenumber&locationid=9017374&creative=332063179836&targetid=aud-566384630639:pla-413713024518&campaignid=1708733954&awsearchcpc=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwtpGGBhBJEiwAyRZX2iw2IG73-VY23Le7_O11LFk4K1Nu9mHaCZNDAzn7Fz7GpdXCCPZkURoCOLcQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Here's the objections:

1). Cutting surface is too small, way too small. A standard Stew Mac nut slot file (non-diamond) has 2.5 times more usable cutting surface on only ONE side, you can turn the file over and have an additional 2.5 times the cutting surface if it wears down.... This alone makes this a poor implementation of a diamond nut slot file.

2). The handle is.... funky.... I cut likely over a hundred nut slots every week week in and week out for years, over a decade now. My files have to work well and cut well and be predictable. With this triangular handle the geniuses who came up with these really should have vetted them with a busy shop that does lots of through put with guitars or other instruments needing their nut slots cut.

I found the handles difficult to hold on to and VERY difficult to ascertain the cutting angle which is paramount to a well cut nut slot. With the straight SM files that I've always used the angle of the dangle is visible at a glance for me to see if I'm splitting the head stock set back angle in half when that's what I want to do.

3). One plus of these things is the hole in the handle they could be stored on hooks which is not the case with SM files.

4). Folks who work in the trade need our tools to be reliable and consistent. We fill low nut slots with light cured dental fillings and this may gum up a file. Not having additional cutting surface is a non-starter when folks may use CA and dust or what we use, dental fillings to raise slots. If you clog up your file with a SM file I can more to a different span of cutting surface. With these I can't and am SOL.

These didn't pass the smell test in our shop and are not for us and I would suggest that Music Nomad try to enlist pro shops prior... to coming out with offerings such as this. We could have helped them with our objections had we been a beta site as we have been with Stewart MacDonald.

Lastly the SM files are near perfect. Diamond encrusted like my tweezers over by the pigmy pony would be an improvement for SM to do. Hopefully they will see this from grouchy ole Hesh and see the opportunity.

And really lastly a hobby builder or even a pro builder building 24 instrument annually should not need diamond nut slot files ever. Standard SM files should last for hundreds if not thousands of cut slots and they have for us as proof.



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post (total 2): Clinchriver (Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:24 pm) • Chris Pile (Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:46 am)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:38 am 
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I still use my Ibanez files from the late 70's.....

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These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Hesh (Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:32 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 11:35 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Good to know, thanks for the review. Incidentally, I need to clean my SM files. How do you all go about doing that? They are probably gummed up with CA so I was thinking of acetone but IDK...



These users thanked the author jfmckenna for the post (total 2): Pmaj7 (Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:11 am) • Hesh (Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:32 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:35 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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jfmckenna wrote:
Good to know, thanks for the review. Incidentally, I need to clean my SM files. How do you all go about doing that? They are probably gummed up with CA so I was thinking of acetone but IDK...


You bet. I clean mine in acetone as you were considering and it does an OK job. I like to put them in a jar of it, cover and leave over the weekend. If you find a better way let me know because acetone and dental fillings are not all that compatible? Thanks.

There was a thread here some years back where people intentionally let their files get rusty to get them sharp again. Wonder if that would work with nut files too.



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: jfmckenna (Sat Jun 12, 2021 12:36 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:34 pm 
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Remember something about Muriatic acid.

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Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.



These users thanked the author Colin North for the post (total 2): Hesh (Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:30 am) • jfmckenna (Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:04 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 1:57 pm 
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StewMac sells a little brass brush meant for cleaning files.
I keep two of them around.

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-a ... brush.html

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These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post (total 3): Hesh (Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:31 am) • bcombs510 (Sat Jun 12, 2021 3:07 pm) • jfmckenna (Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:04 pm)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:11 pm 
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Hesh wrote:
Purchased one of these, the .013" file to evaluate and I hate it....

Don't hold back, Hesh, tell us how you REALLY feel!
Hesh wrote:
I would suggest that Music Nomad try to enlist pro shops prior... to coming out with offerings such as this. We could have helped them with our objections had we been a beta site as we have been with Stewart MacDonald.

Well, in fairness to MN, they did, even if they missed you (and me!). Some of the pros who tested them were quite impressed. I had been looking at the newish SM diamond nut files, which also have glowing reviews, but they're only sold in 6-file sets at stupidly high prices and don't cover the range of sizes that I (or you) need.

I'm still debating whether to switch from my old SM files -- I don't give them quite the same "near perfect" review as you, but I've learned to live with them.

All opinions are valid, so pleased to see your views on the MN. Thanks!



These users thanked the author Tim Mullin for the post: Hesh (Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:32 am)
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:12 pm 
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I use regular white chalk on my nut files (all of my files actually). Just put chalk on them, brush them clean when they need it (even while working), put on more chalk, keep working. I learned it somewhere a long time ago. It helps to keep crap from sticking in them as badly.

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These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post (total 2): Pmaj7 (Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:17 am) • Hesh (Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:32 am)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:33 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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SteveSmith wrote:
I use regular white chalk on my nut files (all of my files actually). Just put chalk on them, brush them clean when they need it (even while working), put on more chalk, keep working. I learned it somewhere a long time ago. It helps to keep crap from sticking in them as badly.


That's interesting, I'll give that a try and we have the brass brushes that Chris speaks of from SM too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:43 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Tim Mullin wrote:
Hesh wrote:
Purchased one of these, the .013" file to evaluate and I hate it....

Don't hold back, Hesh, tell us how you REALLY feel!
Hesh wrote:
I would suggest that Music Nomad try to enlist pro shops prior... to coming out with offerings such as this. We could have helped them with our objections had we been a beta site as we have been with Stewart MacDonald.

Well, in fairness to MN, they did, even if they missed you (and me!). Some of the pros who tested them were quite impressed. I had been looking at the newish SM diamond nut files, which also have glowing reviews, but they're only sold in 6-file sets at stupidly high prices and don't cover the range of sizes that I (or you) need.

I'm still debating whether to switch from my old SM files -- I don't give them quite the same "near perfect" review as you, but I've learned to live with them.

All opinions are valid, so pleased to see your views on the MN. Thanks!


Hey Tim do you know who MN enlisted to beta? I'm interested because 1) Do we know them personally and 2) what kind of Luthier are they meaning do they do large volume repair work needing files for metals, bone, plastics, metal saddles, even slotting bridge ramps or do they only work on new builds which is much less demanding on nut files?

I'm kind of in the camp as well that diamond coated nut files may be a solution looking for a problem. When I discussed my test with Dave his response was he has some of the same Grobet files he still uses 25 years later.

Chris's comment is a good one too in that he has what he likes, so do I by the way so why would we change.

Don't get me wrong as you can see from our belt sander we like being on the bleeding edge... :) of Loofierism (shout out to the Padma) but tech, tools and applications have to all align into benefitting from each other. I don't see it here with these MN files though.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:12 am 
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Chris Pile wrote:
StewMac sells a little brass brush meant for cleaning files.
I keep two of them around.

https://www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-a ... brush.html

Haha, Of course they do!

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These users thanked the author dzsmith for the post: Hesh (Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:31 am)
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:49 am 
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Hesh wrote:
Hey Tim do you know who MN enlisted to beta? I'm interested because 1) Do we know them personally and 2) what kind of Luthier are they meaning do they do large volume repair work needing files for metals, bone, plastics, metal saddles, even slotting bridge ramps or do they only work on new builds which is much less demanding on nut files?.

I can’t tell you anything more than is on the Music Nomad website, so I’ll leave you to look for yourself.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk



These users thanked the author Tim Mullin for the post: Hesh (Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:31 am)
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:41 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Just checked out the Stewart McDonald files, the diamond gauged ones and they are impressive.

Much more cutting surface that I complained about being lacking with the MN files and the handles are not only in a straight line and what I'm used to there is an optional outer handle available for more grip.

Down side they are expensive and even expensive for a pro shop like ours. At $60 plus a pop when we use over 20 different sizes that's $1,200 to $1,500 for nut files..... :( At this price I'm not sure if I would even want to purchase a sample and what I use now works fine considering.....

Not sure I want to take out a mortgage to buy nut files....


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:42 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Or :) maybe I should get one for Dave to try out, he's like Mikey and he hates everything and then I won't have to worry about these. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:37 am 
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I do general woodworking too and I use chalk in files and a brass file card too. I also buy worn out files in interesting shapes and give them a bit of time in muriatic acid - the strength you get when you buy it at the concrete block supplier for cleaning brick. A few minutes (15-20?) in the acid should do it for these small nut files, then a bath in baking soda to neutralize it. I don;t know if the width would suffer, but worht a try if you go through them frequently - report back?

Alternatively, send them to Boggs - they come back sharper than new and shipping on these lightweight files would be very affordable. I have sent 8 pounds of files to them in a Priority envelope with lots of tape.

https://boggstool.com

Ed M



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 8:33 am 
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So the question is, what does Boggs do?



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 5:15 pm 
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Not sure - I know it is not acid. Their website talks about abrasive streams. All I know is that they come back better than new

Ed M



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:34 pm 
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When I first started as a lathe hand in the last 70's, I was taught to rub chalk on my files when smoothing out the finish before we would use sandpaper and cutting oil to polish up bearing surfaces. I guess I was a grinder too.
You have to watch how you hold it when working on a crankshaft for a punch press. Those cheeks were sharp!

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:41 am 
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After a long wait, I finally received my Music Nomad diamond nut files from Sweetwater. I find that MN uses 2 different grits of diamond dust. For the sizes over .024", the grit is coarse and works very well. The smaller sizes use a very fine grit that does not cut easily. Using water really improves the cutting. Also, the small file can be easily removed from the MN plastic holders and is about the width of a single-edge razor.

All-in-all. I am happy with the larger sizes but fall back to my stew mac metal files for the treble string cuts.

As much as I hate to spend the money, I may try the stew mac diamond files. Like Hesh, I use dental UV cured matrix for nut repairs.

Mike Franks
www.mjfranksguitars.com



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:50 am 
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That's a lot of money for these things considering it's just a cheap piece of plastic and a diamond-dust nail file...

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