Official Luthiers Forum!

hi

is there a slow setting glue for gluing up wood bindings. don't want to get all the stuff for hot hide glue and titebond grabs straight away

cheers

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

Try fish glue.

I use titebond for wood bindings and have never had a problem. I don't spread the glue over the whole binding ledge at once, but in about three steps per side\strip. Have my tape all cut into about 30 three inch strips ready to go before applying glue.

Never tried tihis on bindings, but Titebond extend gives extra working time.

B

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

I believe you are likely more interested in extended open time versus longer cure or drying time. Fish has the longest open time I know of for common instrument glues, has excellent tack (less slipping and sliding about), and dries hard for good scraping. While many vendors sell fish in small quantities, it's quite economical to order directly from Norland in the gallon size ($29.25 plus S&H for a gallon). Shelf life has not been an issue for us, and we have 5 year old fish that sets up and works as well as fresh.

https://www.norlandproducts2.com/fish/fishproductsdetail.asp?Product=High%20Tack%20Fish%20Glue

_________________
A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower

If you use fish glue, don't try to steam and squeeze closed any gaps you find after it's dry. It does reactivate with heat and moisture, but also wicks into the endgrain of softwoods and leaves stains that can't be removed.

I normally recommend making a homemade version of Old Brown Glue (hot hide glue with urea added in), but if you are sure you don’t want to be in the hot hide glue making business, Old Brown Glue is fine. Just heat it up a bit before use, preferably in a warm water bath (pot of hot water on a hot plate works fine). Hot hide glue, including Old Brown Glue, won’t stain anything and it is a pleasure to use.

I'm just the opposite. I tape my bindings and purfling tightly in place and get it perfect, then place a spot of thin CA between the pieces of tape, "tacking" the binding in place. If any spot needs a little help I can hold it tight with a piece of UHMW while the glue kicks off. Then I pull the tape and wick a line of CA on the interface and, bingo. Works for plastic, wood, all the various bits of purfling including the little teflon strips for pearl.

I used Titebond Extend on bindings on my two most recent projects. No problem with working times. On a couple of inadvertently allowed gaps, I noticed it dried white not clear. Its shelf life is about half of regular Titebond, and the manufacturer is not hustling the user to buy new glue when there's still some left. It gets stringy and doesn't spread well when it's old. No idea about the strength lessening with age, as bindings don't need much glue strength to stay in place.

I suspect Duco Cement would do the job as well. I used it once on plastic bindings; it's a solvent for many plastics. Literally millions of balsa wood model airplanes have in the past been assembled using Duco and it dries clear.

_________________
Peter Havriluk

hi Freeman,

I like the sound of doing it this way, less stress fitting dry.

Any issues with the ca glue wicking into spruce top or perhaps my maple binding?

cheers

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I seal my spruce tops with shellac to prevent discoluration with CA wicking into the spruce grain. I've never had problems with hardwoods.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I've been successfully using the same technique Freeman describes for at least 10 years. I always shellac the binding channels to prevent staining. No matter what glue you use the key is makes sure your bindings are bent so that they fit unless, of course, they're plastic.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

+1 for the CA method!

I've been using CA on bindings for the last three years.

One additions trick... I use DNA in a small needle bottle to release the binding tape (the brown stuff SM used to sell) from the guitar top. I end up with zero tear out and the alcohol evaporates in seconds. Try it with a pipette on a spruce scrap and see what you think. It only takes a drop.

hi Colin, do you drop the CA glue in the top and side of the bindings or just top


Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I have used both CA and Fish Glue methods. I do like the Fish glue method more, as the CA method has a tendency to blow out the entire binding if you put too much stress on it. It doesn's happen a lot, but i think it did happen to me once.

_________________
-Marcus
http://www.bailieguitars.com
Instagram | YouTube

Don't know about Colin but I use super thin CA and wick it into the top and on the side.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Fish glue has the longest working time I know of.

Fish Glue !
Make sure your all the glue joints are perfect-just like you'd do
with any glue.
Mike

_________________
Mike Collins

So I bought some thin CA glue and wicked it in and it worked a treat.
No stress what do ever

that's another new technique learnt from this forum,

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk

I (normally) only use CA for my purflings, and TB1 for bindings.
I have used CA (a rubberised variety for shock resistance) for plastic bindings, again sealing with shellac to ensure none got into the spruce.
But I have used quantities of thin and medium CA on maple for jig assembly with no discolouration.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I use fish, but in a dvd version I/v seen john bogdanovich use titebond white glue. I/ve also used elmers white glue. from the $ store it sets up slowly and gives me enough working time to make sure everything is perfectly aligned. I use CA , but frankly would not trust it on bindings or purflings for a variety of reasons.

I used CA for bindings for the first time on a build recently as well. Zero stress.

I used a strip of HDPE as a proxy for the binding and did the purfling first then the binding.



Made the mitre zero stress as well.



Ernie, what are the concerns for CA on binding?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars

Ernie, it's your choice for sure but just would like to pass on my experience. I've been using CA on plastic and wood bindings since 2009 with zero issues. An OM I built in 2009 has ebony bindings put on with CA. This one is my daily player and goes out of the house with me at least weekly so it gets plenty of "gig wear" and the usual knocks. No issues.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Ok , since you asked me . I use 3 kinds of ca but personally dont like it . It smells bad! and If I/m in a hurry its a PITA to wash off and clean unless there is acetone around, Just went to the dollar store to buy acetone. Another reason is the reversibility factor , particularly with ukes an wood binding /purfling. If I/ve made an error, in clamping using fish I can easily rectify my mistake with fish , by using a hair dryer . reapplying fresh fish glue, and reclamping, I like to use condit violin clamps on my uke binding for all the really tight bends, especially at the waist. I don/t dislike ca and would not knock it . Luthiers all have their own methods that work best for them. My 2 cents worth. The other factor for me is cleanup . Whatever goobs of fish glue are left after routing the binding/purfling are easy to clean up with hot water and a rag. Unlike the ca , which needs acetone rubber gloves , respirator.

We try to avoid rewetting fish, hide, or CA with solvent for cleanup, preferring to prep the body with shellac before milling the binding channels, and using scrapers for much of the cleanup. All of these glues scrape quite nicely when dry or cured, and a thicker freshly sharpened card scraper does the job with one end's edges safe'd with blue tape when working the top.

_________________
A constellation only takes shape when one maps the whole.
- Beth Brower