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 Post subject: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:08 pm 
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OK I have one last major purchase to make....a bandsaw. I am 99.9 percent sure that I will be buying a Rikon 18" 2.5hp saw next month when they go on sale for $999.00 @ Woodcraft. I want to make sure that I am buying the right tool for the job. I do not want to have to upgrade for about 10 years, if ever. So please, if anyone knows of a better deal or something that is better suited for what I want to do, please say so.

My primary need:
1. re-saw capability

I need plenty of power and the ability to cut very straight to achieve minimal loss of material up to roughly 10". I will be cutting Eastern maple, Black Walnut, Adirondack Spruce, Ash, Cherry, Red and White Oak, Sycamore and possibly hickory and butternut.

I figure that I will need to purchase a 3/4" Woodmaster blade or something comparable as well as a better re-saw fence, bringing expenses to about $1300.

Any advice is surely appreciated as this needs to be a smart investment on my part.

thanks in advance


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 2:49 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I have one & love it !
The best saw on the market for the money.
Make your own resaw fence -the table is so solid it's easy to clamp a
thick and square piece of hardwood or metal to it.

Enjoy your new toy !

Mike

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:08 pm 
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thanks for the reassurance. Which blade do you recommend for the best resaw capability?

Woodmaster ct
timberwolf
Highland wood slicer
or something else?


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 3:19 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Call Louis Iturra, bandsaw blade guru. He'll not only steer you to the right blade, he'll give you a hell of a price on it too!
Iturra Design
1-866-883-8064

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:02 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Joey, don't waste your time and $$$ for anything but a carbide tipped blade.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:07 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I have a woodslicer, and they're nice for maximum yield on easy to resaw woods, but they don't last very long, and performance decreases relatively fast. I've got a woodmaster that I haven't used yet that I plan to use on woods where absolute maximum yield is less of an issue, and a few aluminum master (I think...might be a trimaster, will check) for 'normal' high yield resawing. The lenox carbide tipped blades are awesome.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I use scrape wood as a brake-just put it up against the blade!
Mike ;)
I've tries many blades-there seems to be no real difference between the high grade ones.
Mine walks through 8+" of Coco !!!!
I love it !
Mike

Filippo-where's the dust ?
Man-your shop is like "HESH"clean !!!
beehive

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 4:47 pm 
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Mike Collins wrote:
I use scrape wood as a brake-just put it up against the blade!
Mike ;)
I've tries many blades-there seems to be no real difference between the high grade ones.
Mine walks through 8+" of Coco !!!!
I love it !
Mike

Filippo-where's the dust ?
Man-your shop is like "HESH"clean !!!
beehive


I've heard several people make similar claims, and that's a big reason I am going with the Rikon (unless someone manages to suddenly change my mind). With blades I am most concerned with:
1. minimal loss
2. longevity (I hate changing bandsaw blades)

I know that the Lennox blades are tip top, but $132 is an awful lot of money for a bandsaw blade. I am inclined to go with cheaper, as long as I that doesn't mean I have to change the blade monthly or anything. I'd rather spent $132 and change the blade once a year, than spend $40 four times and change the blade 4 times a year. You know what I mean? So really I am assuming that the expensive carbide tip blade lasts much longer than the woodmaster blades, etc. Can anyone verify that?

I will be putting this thing to good use, sawing up several trees and stumps per year.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:03 pm 
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Filippo Morelli wrote:
A number of us own the bigger Rikon and we're all very happy with it. Can't be beat for $1,000. The Grizzly 17's seem to be the other saw folks like in this price range. Note that the Rikon 18 actually has a wheel radius which is actually close to 19".

Bearings are big and they are sealed. I've not heard of any quality issues with Rikon's motors or sealed bearings. My only complaints with this saw
a) the base (bottom) could be stiffer. The rest of the chassis is plenty stiff.
b) Make sure you have adequate air speed - the dust collection under the lower bearing set really needs flow. I'm working on some modifications to help the airflow for those of us not running 5hp and 8" suction ... but I'm not done with the mods to recommend them.
c) Hard to read the measurement intervals on the fence. I solved that by uniquely marking 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 ticks with unique marks (with a Sharpie). Problem solved.
d) Someone needs to figure out how to install a break on this saw. It rolls on for a long time. This is annoying both for setup changes (have to wait while the saw spins down) and just generally listening to it run on. A minor nit.

I'm currently fooling with the airflow under the bearing set. I wish I could open up the metal under the bearing to get more airflow up through the bearing set, but I believe that is impossible. The other option I'm considering is opening up the diagonal plate inside the chassis, across from the dust collection hole. This would increase airflow and would also direct that airflow across the blade. As well I've thought about putting a brush at this location to also help dislodge bits caught in the kerf. With effective dust collection at this point, one does not need collection in the lower compartment. A periodic vac suffices. To wit, I'm currently just running the dust collection under the bearing set.

Anyway hope some of this helps your thinking. If you buy one, I encourage you to design a brake ... I'm hoping someone does it!

Filippo


thanks Flippo, very informative. What are you running for dust collection? I need an upgrade there as well, but I wasnt planning on going with 5 horsies!!! wow7-eyes that will cost me more than the friggin bandsaw!!! wow7-eyes

I was considering a 4" 3HP at most, and I was considering going even smaller than that. All I am running is a 1 1/2hp router table, a table saw, a bandsaw (getting upgraded to Rikon) and 16/32 Drum Sander.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:06 pm 
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I emailed Woodcraft customer service, and they tell me no sale of rikon 18" in july for $999.
Is it only at a specific woodcraft, or are they just going to announce it in july?

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:11 pm 
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fingerstyle1978 wrote:
I know that the Lennox blades are tip top, but $132 is an awful lot of money for a bandsaw blade.


The saw is just the 'accessory' that moves the blade. ;)
I didn't buy a decent (Lennox) carbide blade until I got a good saw - it didn't make sense to scrimp on the blade after pouring a lot of $$ (by my standards) into a new machine. Now I wonder if my old not-so-good saw would have done the job if I'd just put a good blade on it!

The Aluminum Master blade on my saw just keeps on going - I don't saw a lot, but I really don't like changing blades, so I'm happy.
BTW, it saws aluminum really well, also!

Cheers
John


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 5:19 pm 
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Robert Dunn wrote:
I emailed Woodcraft customer service, and they tell me no sale of rikon 18" in july for $999.
Is it only at a specific woodcraft, or are they just going to announce it in july?


I'm not sure, that's what someone here said though. Normally they don't announce it until it actually goes on sale. When that happens someone usually posts here to let everyone know. I've passed up on it a couple times, but not this time. I was told that they normally they put them on sale twice a year. I think they did one in Jan or Feb, so it's about time for another. If not, I just saved a grand! Well, until they do go on sale anyways.

Maybe someone else knows more. From what I remember someone mentioned that they were speaking with a Woodcraft proprietor who informed them of the sale. It's no surprise given how often they do the sale.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:00 pm 
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I can tell you that I went the hard way and got one of those Masterwoodwolfslicers and got about 3 cuts into 8" Cocobolo before it started to ruin the cuts. I ordered the Lennox carbide immediately and it's worth every cent. Liked it so much I bought the Diemaster for extreme fine cuts and that works for the small detail cutting for purfling..


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Haans wrote:
I can tell you that I went the hard way and got one of those Masterwoodwolfslicers and got about 3 cuts into 8" Cocobolo before it started to ruin the cuts. I ordered the Lennox carbide immediately and it's worth every cent. Liked it so much I bought the Diemaster for extreme fine cuts and that works for the small detail cutting for purfling..


For those of you that are inclined to listen...Haans just squarely placed a fine hammer on the nail. There is NOTHING worse than having a blade go bad in the middle of a fine piece of wood for which you paid good money. Bi-metal and carbon steel blades do not gently and slowly, with consideration to your intent, go bad. They do it rather unexpectedly and the operator usually catches it too late.

Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:26 am 
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The rikon and the griz are both fine light duty Taiwan verticals but definitely invest in the woodmaster CT. The biggest problem you will face is the fact that resawing without powerfeed is simply a pain and there is not a 17'' or 19" bandsaw heavy enough for a proper resaw powerfeed set-up. Get by with what you want to afford but if you start to resaw a lot think about a Northfield or used Tannewitz or Oliver. T


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:31 am 
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timoM wrote:
The rikon and the griz are both fine light duty Taiwan verticals but definitely invest in the woodmaster CT. The biggest problem you will face is the fact that resawing without powerfeed is simply a pain and there is not a 17'' or 19" bandsaw heavy enough for a proper resaw powerfeed set-up. Get by with what you want to afford but if you start to resaw a lot think about a Northfield or used Tannewitz or Oliver. T


I see a lot of used tannewitz's going for reasonable prices (half of the new Rikon), but I don't know anything about them other than they are always being auctioned off by liquidators. Good advice. Are they all 3 phase power though (I don't have 3 phase power yet) or do they run on 220 as well?


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:12 am 
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I have the 22" Rikon....the 10-380. I use it only for resawing.

The complaints I have are almost the exact list that Filippo made but none of the issues are all that acute. The wiggley base is the thing that bugs me the most but the issue isn't really affecting the performance of the saw.

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 12:48 pm 
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I'd have a look at the Jet 14" pro. It's got a 2 speed step pulley arrangement that allows 1500 & 3000 fpm blade speed. Jet tools are well supported here in the US.
-C

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:21 pm 
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I am in no way trying to denigrate the initial poster's selection of a bandsaw, nor do I have a lack of understanding of the needs of a luthier. I am simply replying to the needs of straight cuts and minimum waste, a requirement of the initial post. Frankly, light grade set-ups waste valuable wood, hand pushing is ineffective. I am suggesting that investment in superior sawyer equipment saves great wood and is simply an investment.

P.S. If anyone knows of a Tannewitz in any good working condition for half the price of a rikon I will buy it. T.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 10:36 pm 
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The grizzly 17" is on sale right now for only $698. It's worth a look.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 2:41 am 
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Great discussion!! I looked into bandsaws and realized it's not about what is the best. It's about more of what works. What do I need to get the job done. For me I came from the stand point of " I have only so much money and what will work...... "
Me? I settled for the Jet 16" bandsaw.... Am I happy? YES! with out a doubt! I got a great deal on it... and new to boot.

Now for the reasons why I'm happy....
With my limited experience in shop tools.. I thought I made a good choice for re-sawing. Happy? Yup!!
I set up the saw, bought a fine blade (woodslicer) and moved to doing just that.... re-saw! Happy? Again Yup!!
It didn't go well. Made sides but not for long. Blade went dull..... quick!!!!
After, or around the time of finding this site I see a reply to one of my post here that recommends the "Woodmaster CT" from Leonx. Best suggestion by far. Great blade but remember it's pricey until you do the math. So why am I happy?... defiantly not about the saw (I find i paid too much for less HP) b
Really it's the blade choice, 1.5 Hp cuts just fine through 9.5" inches of wood. Just use a "Good Blade."
Point is... It's more about the blade than the saw. Don't get me wrong. Bearing size, spool size, HP, and all do mean a lot. Just really be happy with what you buy, make a great blade choice and keep going.

Man...@$##%@@..... I didn't know I could get a Rikon for that Price......!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm still happy.... Great blade and the saw works just fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:17 am 
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timoM wrote:
I am in no way trying to denigrate the initial poster's selection of a bandsaw, nor do I have a lack of understanding of the needs of a luthier. I am simply replying to the needs of straight cuts and minimum waste, a requirement of the initial post. Frankly, light grade set-ups waste valuable wood, hand pushing is ineffective. I am suggesting that investment in superior sawyer equipment saves great wood and is simply an investment.

P.S. If anyone knows of a Tannewitz in any good working condition for half the price of a rikon I will buy it. T.


Hey Tim, check out http://www.irsauctions.com

It may take some time and some looking to find an auction in your area, but you can definitely grab an old tannewitz there for a couple hundred buck. Only problem (for me) is that they are all 220/440 3 phase. I don't have industrial power in the shop. Also keep in mind that you can buy without showing up to check it out. But shipping and handling adds quite a bit to the price. With any luck, you can find one in your area.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:23 am 
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valleyofelah wrote:
The grizzly 17" is on sale right now for only $698. It's worth a look.


Hello,
Can you provide a link please? I see Grizzly's website has the 2HP 17" on sale for $895, which is not bad, but if I could find one for $698, I'd be all over it.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:16 am 
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Never mind. Found it and ordered it!!! What a great deal. If I ever get 3 phase power and start re-sawing a ton I'll have no problem finding a tennewitz on irsauction.com

Great find bliss this is exactly what I was hoping for. Complete price including shipping was $792.00. You can't beat that for a brand new 17" 2 HP bandsaw. I'm going to throw a Lennox blade on it, but still you have saved me about $300 or $400 bucks. I'm glad I created this thread!


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 6:20 am 
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fingerstyle1978 wrote:
timoM wrote:
I am in no way trying to denigrate the initial poster's selection of a bandsaw, nor do I have a lack of understanding of the needs of a luthier. I am simply replying to the needs of straight cuts and minimum waste, a requirement of the initial post. Frankly, light grade set-ups waste valuable wood, hand pushing is ineffective. I am suggesting that investment in superior sawyer equipment saves great wood and is simply an investment.

P.S. If anyone knows of a Tannewitz in any good working condition for half the price of a rikon I will buy it. T.


Hey Tim, check out http://www.irsauctions.com

It may take some time and some looking to find an auction in your area, but you can definitely grab an old tannewitz there for a couple hundred buck. Only problem (for me) is that they are all 220/440 3 phase. I don't have industrial power in the shop. Also keep in mind that you can buy without showing up to check it out. But shipping and handling adds quite a bit to the price. With any luck, you can find one in your area.


I actually bought my Northfield at one of their auctions. One note about these auctions, my 32" Northfield was at $650 for weeks before the final day, I ended up paying $4500 as the dealers started bidding, still a bargain, but the good stuff at these auctions gets expensive in the last moments.


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