Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Mon Mar 18, 2024 9:41 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:21 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 3272
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hello,

I usually pore fill with zpoxy. I've had good success following Todd Stocks videos on YouTube. Zpoxy is very forgiving with the mix, cures pretty quickly, pops the grain, etc.... all the great stuff about zpoxy.

The one thing that still troubles me though is getting buildup in all the angles of the headstock and around the heel. I have a tough time getting these problem areas level without accidentally sanding through on the edges.

I'm working on French polish as the way to finish going forward. Therefore I'm considering just moving to pumice pore fill on the neck. Something a little more forgiving and more inline with French polish. I'm thinking still use zpoxy on the body. I've had good results there. I'm also thinking of staying with the zpoxy on the headplate and backstrap only. Then doing pumice on the rest of the neck.

What do you folks like to do for pore fill on the neck?

Brad



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:45 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2006 7:37 am
Posts: 4775
I'm a Z-Poxy guy, too, Brad. I've had really good luck with necks. I usually spread it on with the squeegee and then rub away the excess with my finger in those tricky junctions. It seems to produce a well-filled and smooth layer to top coat.



These users thanked the author James Orr for the post: bcombs510 (Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:43 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:44 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 3272
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What abrasive do you like to use to level it? I got back and forth between maroon and grey scotch brite.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
Insta - https://www.instagram.com/cbcguitars/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/cbcguitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:13 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 4:44 am
Posts: 5396
First name: colin
Last Name: north
Country: Scotland.
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
No so much experience, but I'm right in the middle of this, epoxy on a neck. Third, and hopefully last coat. I'm a "smoothing with a gloved finger" man totally, no squeegee on necks.
Rather than the scotchbrite, I prefer paper abrasives on various small sanding blocks (shaped erasers - rounded, wedge ended, flat, etc.) and as light a touch as possible in those places, especially at the headstock.
I tried scotchbrite to start with, especially in the early coats, too "spongy" to control and ended up going through the epoxy every time. May use it for that final light scuff after I get some decent build-up.
Oh, and I use a light touch with a scraper for initial levelling of the heavier early coats, just to speed things up before the abrasives, not that I'm recommending you try it.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.



These users thanked the author Colin North for the post: bcombs510 (Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:19 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:36 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:14 pm
Posts: 439
First name: Mike
Last Name: Imbler
City: Wichita
State: KS
Zip/Postal Code: 67204
Country: usa
Focus: Build
I just use sanding dust and shellac. I sand the neck and without wiping it down I give it a quick coat of shellac with a muneca.

Then sand and shellac again.

Takes quite a few repetitions, but gives a great pore fill that looks natural, and the sanding and shellacing take only a minute or two per session.



These users thanked the author Imbler for the post: Colin North (Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:37 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:47 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 12:47 pm
Posts: 2417
First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
City: Bothell
State: Washington
I use z-poxy on the neck too, applied with a gloved finger for the whole neck. I haven't had a problem with build up at edges or corners using that method. I level sand with p400 sandpaper and stopped getting sand through at the edges once I started using squares of sandpaper double-stick taped to a firm foam sanding block. That approach is based on a tip that I think I got on this forum. Previously, I had been just wrapping the sandpaper around the block, but since the paper rolls around the edge of the block, the sandpaper isn't truly flat on the sanding face. As soon as I switched to double-stick taping a square of sandpaper to the face of the block, the sand through stopped happening. I also use a light touch at the edges.

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter



These users thanked the author J De Rocher for the post (total 2): Colin North (Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:43 am) • bcombs510 (Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:54 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:39 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 1904
Location: Raleigh, NC
First name: Steve
Last Name: Sollod
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Zpoxy with gloved hand for me also. Sand with 400 with a foam block, light touch...

_________________
Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com



These users thanked the author sdsollod for the post: bcombs510 (Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:46 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:40 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 995
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
Old fashioned oil based filler for my necks.



These users thanked the author Glen H for the post: bcombs510 (Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:45 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:35 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 1161
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Pumice/shellac. Sometime old school is best.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



These users thanked the author rlrhett for the post: bcombs510 (Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:38 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:49 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 09, 2006 2:35 pm
Posts: 2951
Location: United States
First name: Joe
Last Name: Beaver
City: Lake Forest
State: California
Focus: Build
I like epoxy also.

I use nearly the same technique with Zpoxy and System Three.

For the body I spread with a squeegee pretty much as Todd Stock shows. On the neck, I use something flexible like an old credit card or hotel room key card or maybe a small squeegee. I do a section at a time, like a back or one side. Once that section is done I quickly warm it up with a hair drier. Not hot by any means, just a few passes. To much heat and it will bubble, you don't want that. When it's right the epoxy will begin to flow easily. Then I take a foam brush and quickly go over the area. That removes excess epoxy and smooths the ridges. Just do it once per area, per coat.

Note: If you are using an epoxy such as Zpoxy, that is susceptible to amine blush and there is a fair amount of humidity in the air, then you will want to warm the wood a little with the dryer Before the epoxy is applied. That will drive off any moisture and greatly reduce the chances of a blush occurring.

After the coat is finished I let it sit until it is dry enough to handle. Then I proceed with the next coat. It usually takes three.

If you wait for a full cure between coats it will not bond as strongly between layers. Before you start applying a finish over the epoxy, be sure you have given the epoxy enough time for a full cure.

The foam brush is the ticket for a smoother coat requiring less sanding.

_________________
Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust



These users thanked the author Joe Beaver for the post: bcombs510 (Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:55 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:19 am 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12964
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
This thread reads like a Urologist's forum..... idunno :D

I used... the gloved finger too as a RIN tool (rub it in) and also to smooth it out toward the end.

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: bcombs510 (Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:55 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:37 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 3081
As I always dyed necks, I never filled the mahogany at all. I double sprayed the necks...for every coat of lacquer on the box, two went on the neck.



These users thanked the author Haans for the post (total 2): SteveG (Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:34 am) • bcombs510 (Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:55 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:04 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 1701
First name: John
Last Name: Parchem
City: Seattle
State: Wa
Zip/Postal Code: 98177
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I have used glu boost fill and finish and their accelerator on the last few necks and have been very happy with it on the neck. I pad it on with a paper towel knock it back with some 400 grit sand paper and repeat until I am happy. I follow with shellac and royal lac but I suspect the CA might be an ok finish as applied.

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com



These users thanked the author johnparchem for the post: bcombs510 (Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:47 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:20 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 5:08 am
Posts: 1904
Location: Raleigh, NC
First name: Steve
Last Name: Sollod
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hesh, who knows, there may be some urologists on the OLF...

_________________
Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com



These users thanked the author sdsollod for the post: Hesh (Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:26 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 6:30 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 10:02 am
Posts: 89
First name: michael
Last Name: jennings
City: Lopez Island
State: WA
Zip/Postal Code: 98261
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Semi-pro
I use the same process as I do on gunstocks, what use to be referred to a "Hand Rubbed London Oil" finish.

Dry sand to 400 or 600 depending on the porosity of the individual piece.
Liberal soak in coat of Dembart Gunstock/Checkering Oil. [Similar to TruOil but quite a bit thinner].
Let dry thoroughly.
Begin wet sanding [usually 600 to start] using the same oils as lube. Creates a "slurry" of wood dust oil that I then hand rubbed in.
Dry
Continue with this up to 800 until all pores are filled.
Final wet sand and aggressively wipe off any slurry.
Dry
Hand buff any dull spots [slurry that didn't get wiped away] Usually with 0000 steel wool or 1200 paper.

Let dry/cure for a few days

Then

Several very light coats [drops at a time] vigorously hand rubbed in. FRICTION/HEAT is your pal here.
Let thoroughly dry between applications

Final coat of wax... usually use a wax from DemBart as well.

Smooth and slick as a baby's patootie.... nice semi gloss that looks like a Holland & Holland or Purdy........
And so easy to repair down the road.



These users thanked the author michael jennings for the post: bcombs510 (Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:16 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 16, 2017 6:12 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:15 pm
Posts: 1041
First name: Gil
Last Name: Draper
City: Knoxville
State: Tennessee
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I've tried many different pore fillers (except epoxy) and have settled on Aqua Coat. I've done the past 6-7 instruments with it and haven't had any issues. Super easy to apply...I seal everything with 3-5 coats of 1 lb. shellac, wipe on Aqua Coat in sections with a paper towel, get it as smooth as I can, wait a few hours and let it dry, sand it back a little, a few seal coats of shellac, one more application of Aqua Coat, let it sit overnight, next day sand back a little, then seal coat with shellac, then onto build coats. Same procedure for neck and body. There is still some level sanding to do while making up the build coats to make the pores completely disappear, but this is the case with all other pore filers I have used...Aqua Coat is just easier to use and less messy. Since I use mahogany for the neck the pores are smaller so they fill up quicker than most hardwoods I use for the body.



These users thanked the author Goodin for the post: bcombs510 (Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:16 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 8:43 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 10:11 am
Posts: 2140
I use dyed joint compound. -two coats sanding in between.



These users thanked the author Brad Goodman for the post: bcombs510 (Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:16 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:09 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:18 pm
Posts: 381
Location: Somerset UK
State: West Somerset
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I am happy with Aqua Coat too. Easy to apply with a bit of fabric. Two goes pretty much does the job. Only downside is the relatively long wait for it to go off.

Dave



These users thanked the author Dave m2 for the post: bcombs510 (Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:16 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:10 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:07 am
Posts: 802
Location: Cobourg ON
First name: Steve
Last Name: Denvir
City: Baltimore
State: ON
Zip/Postal Code: K0K 1C0
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hesh wrote:
This thread reads like a Urologist's forum..... idunno :D

I used... the gloved finger too as a RIN tool (rub it in) and also to smooth it out toward the end.

Urologist? Or proctologist? It cracks me up that just the sound of a glove being snapped on works as a punchline.

A couple of tips for sanding. I've got about half a dozen pink erasers floating around. Often the perfect mix of give/stiffness.

The other thing you can do for odd shaped sanding blocks is to slice up flip flops from the dollar store. Easily carved or sanded to just about any shape.

Steve



These users thanked the author JSDenvir for the post (total 3): Bryan Bear (Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:00 pm) • Hesh (Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:38 am) • bcombs510 (Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:16 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 4:37 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2016 12:18 pm
Posts: 381
Location: Somerset UK
State: West Somerset
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Sorry I'm an idiot! I have used Aqua Coat but found I needed several coats to do the job.

I now use Jecofil which I much prefer. It is a traditional oil based filler but works really well. A drawback is the 12 hour hardening time.

Made by these people:
https://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/ ... iller.html

Not so useful for people not in the UK I guess!
Dave



These users thanked the author Dave m2 for the post: bcombs510 (Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:40 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:24 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 6:14 pm
Posts: 439
First name: Mike
Last Name: Imbler
City: Wichita
State: KS
Zip/Postal Code: 67204
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Dave m2 wrote:
Sorry I'm an idiot! I have used Aqua Coat but found I needed several coats to do the job.

I now use Jecofil which I much prefer. It is a traditional oil based filler but works really well. A drawback is the 12 hour hardening time.

Made by these people:
https://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/ ... iller.html

Not so useful for people not in the UK I guess!
Dave


Ah, thanks! I wondered what I was doing wrong with aqua coat because although I like it, it takes me about 7 coats! l


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:47 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 7:15 pm
Posts: 1041
First name: Gil
Last Name: Draper
City: Knoxville
State: Tennessee
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I developed a technique for Aqua Coat to get it on in as few coats as possible. I never need more than two coats..one coat would probably do but I do another one to make sure I didn't miss any pores. I do a small area at a time; so for the back I would do about 1/4 of it at a time. I get out a glob of Aqua Coat about the size of a quarter on a paper towel, rub it in with a circular motion and keep rubbing and flattening it out until it gels up and starts to harden. The key is to keep working it until it hardens and starts to grab the paper towel. Then I do a few straight strokes with the grain to smooth it out. That's all there is to it. You'll still have to do level sanding with the first run of build coats but this is the case with all non-epoxy fillers in my experience. Aqua Coat is the least messy of them that I have tried.



These users thanked the author Goodin for the post (total 2): Imbler (Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:38 pm) • Clinchriver (Sun Aug 20, 2017 5:58 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 21, 2017 9:43 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 1887
Location: UK
Nothing. Birthday suit. It's a curved surface therefore open pore looks fine.



These users thanked the author Michael.N. for the post: bcombs510 (Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:21 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:05 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 687
First name: Casey
Last Name: Cochran
City: Gainesville
State: GA
Zip/Postal Code: 30501
Country: USA
Focus: Build
For satin necks I use Pro Custom Oil, available from Brownells. For gloss necks I use Wood Kote.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.



These users thanked the author Casey Cochran for the post: bcombs510 (Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:21 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 11:19 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:34 am
Posts: 52
First name: Steve
Last Name: Blower
City: Keighley
State: West Yorkshire
Country: UK
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Egg white on necks. cheap, available, none toxic and effective.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 30 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: guitarjtb and 14 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com