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Hey guys, I've been commissioned to install a pickup in an older gentlemans acoustic... he isnt looking to spend a fortune, nor does he play out a lot. Pickup is going in a 1966 yamaha, we had discussed going with an undersaddle transducer, but im reading that the tone is pretty shoddy with these. so ive been thinking about a soundboard transducer instead, however, i hear that feedback is a major issue? He is hoping to spend around $100 CDN on the pickup, and whatever we agree on for labor... so, with this price range, what would be our best options? he isnt expecting the most amazing tone in the world, just something to sound good at jamming and small stage volumes, to keep up with the other guys. he is also a fingerstyle guitarist.
thanks a lot for any help!

I have had no experience with but have heard good things about the K&K pickups. You might try over at the UMGF ( unofficial Martin guitar forum). Lots of folks there using them and I'm sure they would be glad to give you feedback. The K&K may be over your price point,but I'm not sure. Good luck in your search.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

K&K Pure Mini will do you fine.
Pat

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There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

I use the K&K Pure Mini or the LR Baggs Lyric mic in builds I add electronics to. K&K is a passive system, no battery pack inside, just 3 small transducers on the bridge plate.Easy installation. Lyric has a battery pack and a soundhole volume control.Haven't had any complaints about feedback but have had a few comments about fret noise with the Lyric. I recommend a pre amp but they can be mixed and equalized at the board.Cost last time I put one in was 120.00 for the K&K at Tom Lee and the Lyric was around 130.00. Ed Bond (meddlingfool) is a distributor of a new passive system in Vancouver, maybe he will chime in.

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Blue Ring Acoustics
blueringacoustics.ca

Same quality and performance as K&K -- made in Michigan -- Jesse will work with you for custom configurations -- very good stuff check out the price difference.

http://www.jjb-electronics.com/prestige-330.html

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I've installed about an equal number of Fishman Matrix Infinity UST's and K&K Pure Minis. The Fishman is slightly more involved since it has on board electronics (in the sound hole) and a battery, and you'll have to trim the saddle the thickness of the transducer. The K&K is pure simple - three little transducers superglued to the bridge plate, they even provide a little jig to help you align them. FWIW I charge one hours of labor for the Fishman and one half for the K&K.

You could also consider just dropping in a soundhole magnetic pickup - lots of choices there from 50 bucks to a couple of hundred. You need to ream the endpin but that's about all. There are audio clips at some of the manufacturers - be sure your customer is happy with what he is hearing.

One minor but important thing is how you ream out the end pin - some people just use twist bits, some use a Uni bit (stepped) but I've heard enough horror stories that I broke down and bought the StewMac reamer. Its expensive and will take a few installations to amortize the cost, but not damaging a customer's guitar was worth it to me.

I've come to prefer the Schatten Design HFN passive. A customer insisted on it, and it turns out I really like it, despite my preconceived notions. To me, the k&k imparts a metallic tinge whereas the Schatten has a woody tinge.

It's also a dead easy install, and removeable. Ymmv...

Ed - Do you have an opinion about its resistance/susceptibility to feedback? I'm building a guitar for a guy who plays in a band using amplified acoustic instruments in small settings, so lower performance volume than a straight rock or electric blues band in a bar would have.

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Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

Baggs Anthem (first choice) and Baggs Lyric (second choice and less expensive) however neither of these are likely going to work with that $100 Canadian budget. Nor will many other offerings work with that budget and I'm wondering if the $100 number came out of some deep recess without prior knowledge of what pups cost or with prior knowledge because it's likely not a workable number for any pup that I would ever recommend. No offense intended but the budget seems unreasonable and unrealistic.

$100 does not get you much. Then there is your install fee. Here is a solution that is way under budget and effectively costs almost nothing to install.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/acoustic ... 3738188347

I'm not a fan, but then you didn't ask for that.

Mike

I'll try to clarify:


New from JJB-Electronics comes the first of our new Artist
series, THE PRESTIGE 330. Our new line of pickups are
constructed with the finest components available today. In fact,
they are the same components that are used by other
companies that sell their systems for more than twice as much.
This system is the same exact configuration that is sold for
$130.00 by a very well known company. The first release from
our new Artist Series, The Prestige - 330.

Of course Jesse is talking about K&K components -- PRESTIGE 330 cost $49.95 US

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Someone whom I think knows what they're talking about informed me that the JJB stuff has about 35% less output than the k&k, but I've never tried them back to back. Another similar solution comes from BGM elecronics called the Elevation E3. Haven't tried it, but have one on the way for testing. Also under 100$, but by the time exchange, shipping, and border fees are added on, it'll probably climb north of that.

Baggs produces my favorite UST system, the Element. I used to do a lot of installs in my past life, and Baggs were hands down the most reliable. But...just the other day, I installed an Anthem in one of our guitars, and it was the first time I noticed an audible downgrade in the sound of the guitar. The lyric weighs about 11g (about the same as k&k). Unlike the k&k, which is held on by crazy glue, the lyrics is suspended on foam mounting tape. On our guitar, it sucked out the highs very noticeably, and dropped the top by 23hz. Compared to our other guitars, the guitar with the lyric has noticeable reduced highs, volume, sustain, etc. so I've talked the customer into the Schatten.

As for the Schatten in live settings, seeing the customer live was what tipped the balance for me. His guitar sounded great, and sounded like his guitar. I built a 00 for his girlfriend and installed one in hers as well, and they tour considerably internationally and locally, and I've never heard any complaints in that regard. They can be placement sensitive, but they ship with multiple pieces of application tape for a few tries...

Just put an Anthem SL this morning in a Keith Urban, yep a likely pre-war Keith Urban. The pup is worth twice what the guitar is worth and yes it sounds like a great pup in a really **&^& guitar.....

Don't these people ever give up........

Of course we are talking re OP in terms of budget ($100) But I really like the sound quality of the Lyric -- that's what's going in my personal nylon string cross-over when I get a chance to finish it.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

In response:


On Nov 23, 2015 12:01 PM, "Ken Cierpilowski" <kencierp@yahoo.com> wrote:
Hi Jessie,
I posted on the OLF promoting your 330 unit and one of the guys posted "some here say" that stated the JJB has 30% less output than the K&K of the same configuration -- any response?

Ken




From: Jessie Vallad <jessie@jjb-electronics.com>
To: Ken Cierpilowski <kencierp@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, November 23, 2015 12:18 PM
Subject: Re: comparison

Hello Ken. Thank you so much for talking up our systems.
I don't generally do a lot of squabbling on the forums, but here is an official response.
The specially formulated potting (rubberized coating) that is applied to our transducers "stiffens" them up just enough to cut the likelihood of feedback down to almost impossible, yet the consistency of the material used in this process allows the transducers to still pick up a significant amount of resonance from the soundboard. Nobody else does this quite like we do and that is where we have a leg up on the other guys. 9 times out of 10, any cases of feedback or any other unwanted noise can be attributed to a compatibility issue with other gear that is used, also rare.
As a result of this coating, the 15mm transducers are about 10-15% less sensitive than the K&K mini but they still offer a generous amount of output even without a preamp. The 20mm size is more sensitive than the K&K mini.
I'm definitely not saying that theirs are prone to feedback, but ours are even less so. There are plenty of sound clips all over the Internet that are a testament to how well they reproduce the natural tones of an instrument. They work extremely well.
Thanks again,
Jessie J Vallad
JJBELECTRONICS

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

In all reality, I would expect that minor variance in output levels is not that important. Once there is enough to work with, Yahtzee.

I have no issue with k&k, which I've used, or JJB, which I've used, and expect similar results from the Elevation E3 enroute. Tonally, I prefer the Schatten sound, and I like that it's 7g compared to the 11g of the piezo button types. But I need to worry about stuff like that.

Anyway, good luck OP, let us know how it goes.

Also, you might want to check ebay and Craigslist for used stuff...

I really like the lyrics too and they are about two bills on the street so out of this OP's price range.

If it were me I would be inclined to go back to the client and tell him/her that the budget number that they excreted is unrealistic and not going to get them where they wish to go.

In our business we frequently have the opportunity to waste our time and money sourcing some lousy part for someone and we won't do it. It's not the business that we are in and we tell folks this, kindly. We suggest that they source what they want, where they want it and when they have their crap together come see us and we will put it in for them.

Nice thing about the Lyric besides the very natural and true to the original tone of the thing is that it's less invasive to install on any instrument that one may wish to preserve it's original integrity and configuration. No messing with the saddle drilling holes (2) to tuck the dead spot and for the UST to go topside. The saddle does not have to be milled down and if the thing has a lousy set-up you don't have to do any unnatural acts to preserve the original action as in "set-up" when you are not being compensated for a set-up. The only nonreversible mod to the instrument is the end pin hole is reamed to fit the pup.

Lyrics will feed back if you are sitting right in front of an amp and adjusting the controls and have the volume up too high but beyond this it's wonderful pup in all respects.

I've always recommended that Baggs Element, Anthem, and now Lyric for my own Heshtones and installed many of them with never a single complaint.

Thanks a lot for all the info guys, I haven't had a lot of time to research any of these yet, but I have been hearing a lot about the lyrics. Definitely out of this customers price range. I will look into the jjb system, sounds like awesome bang-per-buck. I really hate small budgets put in place by customers, but what can you do. I won't lose on labor at least. Will let you all know the final outcome!