Official Luthiers Forum!

To be clear even though I admire some of the ideas to improve the search function or reorganize the forum to a degree I'm not advocating anything that would require effort on the admins part.

I've read what Lance wrote where he clearly states that searching is not at all requested.... any further and I will respect this too. This is a change and if you search on keyword "search".... you will find that many other OLFers have requested that folks search first too and and these requests were not challenged.

No problem, again I respect this but it is new news.

If you go back far enough the best argument against asking for folks to respect the time of others and attempt a search first was about another forum and a moderator that was fond of sending folks to the library. The OLF has always had a tradition of not being this hard-arse it's true and some of us have even been known to search for others, review the results, post the pertinent, etc.

So I'm off the issue, Lance said no one has to search and I respect this.

Thanks for your thoughts too everyone.

Peoples !
I am confused. I'm not sure what I said or
how it's been interpreted but...... Search if you
want, ask if you don't want to search or have time to
search.
No harm no foul.
All is well all is ment to be good

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I actually kind of like the forum as it is now. Search works well enough for researching particular topics. I see forums like this primarily as a virtual front porch where we can hang out and chat about a subject we like. I don't need an organized repository of information. Ultimately, guitar building is between you and your chisel, and that chunk of wood in front of you.

It's starting to sound like we may be in violent agreement.....

What's this thread about anyway????

Off to start a new thread about pore filling.....

Anyone have any BRW to unload?

That sounds good WudWerkr. From what I understand it would be a new field kind of like a tagging system where we can search those tags? The only problem I see here is when people tag the wrong thing. Maybe have some multiple keyword tags like:

Search
Subject: Epoxy
Tags: Pore filler, finishing

Like the tags could be the subject matter and the algorithm would search the text in only those tags given. I don't know, thinking out loud here.

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I would like to see a search function that only brings up threads in which a goat is contained. I happen to find these threads the perfect balance of useful information while still containing some entertainment.

By the way, I haven't seen from that ole goat lover tony in a while. Hope he is doing alright.

Greg, I like the OLF, it's the best forum for luthiers that I have found so far. Good community as well I enjoy the banter and humor. I agree that out of the handful of luthiery forums it is the one that needs the least modification. What I do not agree with is the search being easy. I have tried out of courtesy to the general forum to search something very specific. The plethora of results in how many threads about the subjects had almost no relation in to what I was looking for. My only option was to ask about it.

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Fogive me Hesh, But I had to read your post over 4 times to figure out what you were trying to say.
I don't mean any disrespect but I think your post is quite off-topic. This thread not about the right way or wrong way to build a guitar or is it about learning Lutherie.
It is about re-structuring the forum to stop people from asking a question that has already been asked.

My entire point is pretty simple.

The only way that can have any effect is to have heavy handed moderators or "The O.L.F. Police"

Restructuring the forum will not make people search, nor will it make them stop asking questions that have already been asked. Only Moderators can remove redundant threads and warn people about asking questions. There will have to be some enforcement mechanism in place like a warning system or banning that will "Make" people stop doing that. Other members can ask but it will not do much good unless someone with authority says it (and can back it up with a penalty).

People can disagree and say I am putting forth some ridiculous "1st Marine Division" rules, but ultimately if those of you who do not want people to ask something that has already been discussed you will need some kind of enforcement of rules.

I personally have no problem with people that ask questions and I am happy to help them even if it has been asked. If I get tired of a poster asking the same thing over and over (which recently happened in a post with a new member that was in over his head building an electricacoustic hybrid ). I just bowed out and stopped visiting his post. It is pretty simple to just pass over a thread that I think is stupid.

As I said, I don't think the OLF needs to be "fixed". I think it works just fine as it is and I think Lance gives us the free will to post stupid questions or ask the same thing over and over if we want.

It is a pretty simple idea.

Bob

Michiyuki, kudos for raising the issue and promoting continuous improvement. In theory, an archive could be built by topic (like a certain forum most of us know), but it's an inordinate amount of work and would need diligent and computer savvy volunteers who Lance would feel comfortable giving the keys to the kingdom to.

Lance, I like your MO and how you've operated the forum over the years and strived to make it a civil and welcoming place for all. With somethings, its great to have a constant in the equation and your unwavering approach is appreciated on my part.

REVISION & RETHINK -- Another potentially good thread topic gone bad.

Well maybe, just maybe Bob five will be your lucky number....

I'm signing off now, Lance is driving, I know I just was in contact with him and his family is in the car too. Time to drop the crap or at least that's what I'm going to do. Again I'm over it anyway and thank everyone else for their thoughts as well.

Bob I'll finally respond to your email(s) tomorrow and let you know in all honesty what's on my mind.

Peace everyone!

That was quite a read. I'm a newbie. I've spent the last week just finding my way. I don't read every thread as every thread doesn't intrigue me. If at sometime I begin to do some of those things I'll take the time and read them at that time. I really don't know where this search engine is located and probably wouldn't know the correct way of finding something. Not what you'd call a lazy person but if ya don't know how it works ya just have to ask. Hope I don't offend the old pros.


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SELF CENSORED

No need to

TL, DR...

If I'm not interested in a thread, I won't go in to it.

Easy.

However, I've gotten a lot of useful info by asking the same question two weeks later as different peeps with different data will participate.
Still, threads about already covered subjects are exactly far less than zero of a hindrance to my enjoyment here. To me this is a non issue.

For myself, the more times that I read a repeated topic, the more chance I have of info actually sinking in. I've always been happy to reread something until I could build a mental image of the process needed to do a particular task.

Alex

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I was once a member of a forum that was for violin building. After a few years it became a haven for about 10 "experts" that devoted the entire forum debating the curloid declination of the hypernoid involvement of the distal moprendis of the retinuity as described in Sir Boynton's treatise regarding gravitational effects on freeplate disonance and other such related topics. Newb questions were ignored or highjacked onto another highway to enforce the poster's expertise in the area of violin construction. Needless to say, the only posters on that forum for the last few years are the same experts. The forum has been abandoned by all but a few. What I have always enjoyed about the OLF is that all posts are treated with respect and always answered by many. It even gives me a chance to put in my 2 cents now and then. Keep it like it is. By the way, what is the best wood for the back and sides of a guitar?

I am not advocating the heavy moderation of the forum. Why would anyone want what you describe as only a handful of guys talking amongst themselves. That is not a community and not something i would want to be a part of. This threads intentions are to get some new ideas on how to better help eachother. For newer members, it is easier and faster for us to get answers if it is indexed and we can search it. The search function has its flaws here as it stands, at least in my opinion. So far from responses some guys happen to like the search feature and do not want to advance it further. I appreciate the sentiments to not change anything at all, which is important that we have those statements. If you do not like the search feature and spend lots of time sorting out threads, then maybe offer up a suggestion.

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It's pretty clear that most folks, at least the folks commenting here in this thread, prefer the openness of the OLF with no one sending folks to the archives but instead endeavoring to answer their questions.

Alex's comment about how he learns hit me close to home as well because this is how I learn and how I learned what I did learn on this forum. There were times when there were not a lot of folks here who had much in the way of experience. Kind of the blind leading the blind so-to-speak but some of us stepped-up and did the best that we could anyway.

Of course we could be wrong, I most certainly was at times and then someone might correct us. This was not a bad way to learn if that's your focus either and I most certainly benefitted from the redundant nature of many of the questions. Nothing like repitition for some of us who may benefit from it.

Anyway I agree that no one ever advocated additional moderation nor would I. Lance has let us know what he values here, the openness that we currently have and that's good enough for me.

It was likely a mistake on my part to get irritated at the two long term members who started new threads for topics that have much information available already if one simply searched for it. My bad....

Sorry for any confusion and I most certainly do respect the wishes of Lance and the membership.

Thanks again got a Tak to fix here this morning....

@Michiyuki Kubo

It would be nice if the search function could be improved but if you know much about phpbb software that is not an easy task. It could be easy if Lance wants to spend a bunch of money having someone code it but as it stands the forum search function is just not its strong points. If this was a phpbb3 version it would be much better and there are more options such as "mods" that other programmers have written but phpbb is limited in what is available.

Although I don't disagree about creating another "How To" section of the forum you are talking a lot of work on Lance's part and probably a minimum of 2 days down time to create that new section and migrate all of the "how to" threads into it.
He could bring on someone that might know how to set up new sections or re-code the search function but it is a risky proposal to give the keys to your baby to someone that you don't really know or have complete trust in.

I do speak from experience about needing moderators to "police" the forum. Members can point out things all day long but most people don't pay any attention to them. It takes a moderator and a warning system with penalties before people actually change (even older members). I had my forum for over 10 years and found out the hard way that people just don't care until you carry a big stick.

It sounds like most people here don't have a problem with how things are now and don't mind that topics get repeated.

So as they say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

Cheers,
Bob

How about below the Code of Conduct on the board index there is a Forum Search Tutorial. Some simple advise on how to effectively search the forum would benefit everyone. There must be a few tricks that make searching easier.

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My God. We're not talking about foreign policy here. Just maybe asking a question more then once. Sounds like overkill to me.


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I wasn't going to post, but one thing that helps finding topics is to have a meaningful "Subject" line. Search on "subject" first, when looking for topics. Difficult, maybe, but a tiny bit of thought when starting a new topic might preserve it for the search engine.

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

I miss Chris V.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

I miss Todd Stock... And Padma

Did someone say there really is A GOOD PORE FILLER?

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"Music is what feelings sound like"