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I understand. I'll have to see if I can get those. Thank you much!

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At the moment it's way too high, but as you say, you can file down the nut and saddle to get there. Again, the height of the bottom of the strings at the nut should be a fraction above the height of the frets, so if you had 1mm frets, the string height should be 1.05mm or something. THen at the 12th fret, the height should be a couple of mm above the fret depending on the string.

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"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
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Granted, I was a teacher for five years, but I don't think there's any better investment than investing in yourself. Have you seen Hesh's page before? He's done a really good job of laying everything out concisely.

No please send me a link.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

All right spent all day resetting my neck. Unfortunately I had already glued the bridge on so by the time I thought I had everything done I realized that the saddle position changed so I had to re-shim the body at neck joint. My neck maker asked me by the way what kind of angle I wanted between 1 & 2 degrees to which I said 0 degrees and am thankful for. Any way so I broke up some veneer and glued it on top of the body neck joint and re-sanded it. I can't really see much of angle but I know it's there. I'll prolly be adjusting it soon enough. That did fix my saddle position back though.

On another note I was looking at Martin guitars on the Bay and ran across the backpacker travel guitar. I know its cheap but it's still a Martin and it's the perfect size for me to actually travel with since a full size takes up so much space. The first thing I noticed about it though seeing it in 360 view was that it seems to be a through neck clam shell style instrument. Have any of you out there played or owned one of these guitars? And how if any is the bracing done? Or to put it simply how does it work?

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

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My tuners came today so I decided I would go ahead and start working on intonation while I'm waiting on my hotrail and to add the back. All right so it tunes, yay. Bad thing is the first couple frets on each string buzz and I haven't even started filing my nut. First things first. At the first fret the string height is right above .125 so I know I need to file the nut. At the 12th fret the height is at .250 and I know the saddle needs to be a hair shorter too. But if I lower either one I feel like the buzz will just get worse. Any idea of what I'm doing wrong? Can include pics but my cam won't detail the string.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

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If I bend the string I'm playing there's no buzz.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Post the best pics you can. What are you using to measure with, and are you measuring top of fret to bottom of string?

My strings came with a nice lil card that doubled as a gauge on the back. Pretty neat and it allowed me to take better pics. Ok I need to note I'm using old strings because I didn't want to mess up a new set knowing I'm gonna have to remove them a few times. Also I tightened my truss rod to the groan and now the buzz is at just the second fret.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

First, take the nut out of the equation. You need to capo the first fret, or fret the string with your finger -- that puts the string just a hair lower than it should be with properly cut slots.

Now, measure action at 12th fret on the bass side and subtract 0.080" (2 mm) -- that's the amount the action needs to come down. To accomplish that, you multiply that amount by 2 and remove that amount from saddle. My guess is you might not have that much saddle above the bridge and might need to reset the neck angle.

Your buzzes sound like high frets. Not sure where you got the fret board, or if the frets have been leveled and dressed.
If your neck angle is OK (see above), you now need to:
1. remove relief with truss rod (i.e., neck dead straight)
2. level and dress frets
3. install and tune strings to pitch
4. re-establish relief by tightening truss rod (fretted 1st and body fret, business card clearance at 6th fret)
5. cut nut slots (fret between 2nd and 3rd, you should have just a hair of clearance over the first -- you don't want a lot, but you will need some!)
6. measure action at 12th, bass and treble sides, and determine amount to reduce
7. remove twice those amounts from bottom of saddle, on each side.
8. intonate saddle

Fret leveling, dressing and set up are essential skills for a builder. If any of the above steps are unfamiliar, go searching the forum and especially the tutorials mentioned earlier by others.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

From those pictures there's no way it could be the frets! I'd say it could be where the strings pass over the nut or saddle or truss rod rattle. Try radiusing the back of your nut and saddle so the strings pass over them smoothly and make sure they don't slope down away from the string on the other side. Did you press the truss rod down firmly with a wood strip glued over it? Or used some sort of putty or sealant on it to stop rattles?

_________________
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Are you stringing up your guitar without the back on? That's pretty bold.

Might I suggest taking a deep breath and taking a week off from actually building the thing in favor of reading a bit and learning what you are doing right and wrong? I acknowledge your passion and your need to dive into action, but I really think you're not doing yourself a favor in rushing all this work without understanding the basic mechanics. Or you can keep on rushing and have a nice lap steel, perhaps.

Hope you will take this comment positively, as it is meant to be.

Yea I'm pretty bold. I figure it would be easier to start setting up now when I can fix anything on the inside or out with out the limitations of having the back on. And yea I installed the center reinforcement strip really tight before installing the truss. I had to tap the truss a lil to get it in. And no I don't mind taking a break and doing some more reading. Thanks guys.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Evidently you don't know the back of a guitar is an integral part of the instrument... Without it you will never be able to set up the geometry correctly because you are just warping the snot out of the sides and top... I am amazed you have not heard a big snap yet...


Yes... You really do need to read more and learn what you are doing. Without the knowledge of what you are doing you are destined to keep making mistakes.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Wow, as someone who's been watching this thread, I think that outburst is really unfair to all the people who have tried to help you from the start.
There's been a lot of generous time given to your build thread. Don't be offended because someone is suggesting you slow down or study luthier books….I've made most of my mistakes when I've been rushing without complete understanding of why I was doing something.

Jeremy,

That isn't fair. You've had a great deal of help along the way. Cumpiano's book is not expensive, far cheaper than replacement parts. Purchasing and reading that would've demonstrated that you weren't relying only on help from people on this forum. Not only that, but it would've prepared you well for the journey. To expect to learnt his craft without reading a book is a bit of an insult to everyone here who has read thousands of pages on the subject.

Please don't stop building. You did remarkably well with your first all things considered. With some time taken to read and learn, and with your determination and quick progress, you will be able to overcome this hurdle and learn a lot from it in the process. The neck can be replaced.

I've often thought I simply wasn't up to the job but those feelings of inadequacy are slowly become less frequent. All because of research, practice, patience and time.

We all find our own way. Your way can still work.

Regards,
Nick

I sincerely apologize and did the best I could to delete that post. Really you guys have been a tremendous help. I just got mad and I took it out on you guys and that was wrong. I've been reading cumpiano and I just don't get it. I understand the why just not the how. This is just something that needs to be taught on a one on one basis where you can see the process in action.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Everyone learns differently. Some are very visual, others need to read about something and some need to hear something (or some combination of those). You'll find the learning process that works best for you.

Have I mentioned that there's this awesome, downloadable resource, that will let you watch the process step by step?! I didn't see what you wrote earlier, but I'm guessing something went south on the guitar. It's OK! I threw away my first four or five before finally finishing one. Keep your head up, move slowly, in an established direction, and You. Will. Get there. Promise. Go check out Robbie's site. Watch the sample lessons. See what you think.

Jeremy, I also did not read what you posted and it is probably just as well. I assume my comments were partially to blame. I can sometimes come off as a bit nasty sometimes but I don't really mean it. I can be pretty straight forward but I try not to be mean.

I am pretty much in the same situations as you. Actually you have more builds that I do since I am still working on #1. But let me explain where I am and my goals. You see my avatar? That is a Gibson CF100. It is my all time most favorite guitar that I would love to own. Unfortunately there were not very many made and only from 1950 - 1959. One in good shape can run north of $5.000 and a broken run down one can cost $2,000. So I am not in a good position to own one any time soon. You probably know I have been repairing guitars for a number of years so I figured with my knowledge in repair I would just build one ( it can't be that hard...).

So, I signed up here at the forum thinking I could get some basic Idea of how to start and build my own CF-100. The advice I got from a lot of the kind people here was to start out with a kit because I could get it with a lot of the parts serviced and it would save me a lot of frustration but I would learn. I didn't like that advice very much but I decided they probably knew a whole lot more about it than I did so I tucked my pride away and bought a kit from LMI.

That was almost a year ago. Since then I have found out there is so much I do not know that I am very glad I took their advice. I started working on it but I decided I would not do a single thing on it until I completely understood what I was doing and more importantly WHY I was doing it.

That is what I have tried to stress to you in most of my comments. Without the "why" part of the equation you are just doing something because someone said so. Guess what? Almost everyone here does the same thing in different ways and it is up to you to learn what works best for you. Their advice may not work for your specific situation but you have to know before hand how to take in all the info you get and use it to your advantage.

So don't stop building because you think we are picking on you. No one here wants you to fail. But we also don't like to keep watching you do things without knowing what you are doing and then asking for help after you find out you did something wrong.

The other part of the problem you are having is you are trying to build an experimental design with out even knowing how to make a guitar with plans that have been tried and tested. Just look at the guitars that some of the guys (and gals) here are making. Most of the designs are based off of a standard plan and these folks have numerous builds under their belts. All these people can't be wrong or crazy can they? I like to pride myself that I do a really nice job on everything I do but I came here thinking this would be easy and I find the more I learn the more questions I have.

So, Do yourself a big favor and slow down and start participating in this forum by asking questions without having a "problem" to solve. Show us you want to learn and you will be rewarded with knowledge.

Cheers,
Bob

I really feel like a jack@$$ now. You know how when your having a problem and it stumps everything you try? And when those moments come its best to just step back and think of something else, you know clear your mind. Well I should have done that. That's first lesson learned. Lesson number two was and can anybody see what's wrong with this pic besides the starcaster in the background.


If you look closely to the right of the guitar where the neck joint is, you will see a big'ol Waldo sticking up past the natural level of the soundboard. A major defect that would have cost me another neck trying to fix the problem. The good news is I was able to lower that area and make it level with the rest of the sound board. So yea I'm really sorry.

I called my neck supplier and explained what I was trying to do and the problems I was having and to order a new neck. He said he could put the proper neck angle into the neck as builds it but he was talking about a 2 degree angle, but said he could do at 1 1/2 or 1. Just asking because I have been reading cumpiano on the subject of neck angle and says less that 1 degree, around .06 to .08. And other sites ( when I ask google ) come up with wild neck angles like 18 and even one said around 89 degrees. But these aren't flat top guitars either. Is there an optimal neck angle for a flat top.

I get what your saying on your dream guitar. Mine is Thinline double florentine cut away acoustic. Pretty much this is my dream guitar. I am using the grellier plans as my templates for everything I just made my mods so they would work with the measurements and plans. Everything goes where he designed them to go. And don't worry I'm sure there's plenty of questions coming. Thanks Bob, Beth and Nick for the encouragement and forgiveness. Thanks everybody. Hopefully my third acoustic won't freak me out so bad.

_________________
In order to make an apple pie from scratch you must first invent the universe.
- Carl Sagan

Check out F.O.F. Custom guitars on Facebook.

Www.fofcustomguitar.weebly.com

Dude...

That guitar looks to be scrap from the picture. If it were mine I would probably take it apart, salvage the wood you can and burn the rest.

Not having it in hand, it appears you have no radius on the top and the neck angle is the opposite direction it needs to be. A new neck will not fix it and you will be wasting your money. I am not going to go into the reasons I know it is junk because you have to be able to recognize big glaring issues like that before they ever come up.

Don't wast any more of your money and go to the LMI site and use their Kit Wizzard and order a pre serviced kit. Mine came with a DVD that holds your hand all the way through a build. For me it doesn't go into enough of the why part but it will show you the very basics of how to build an acoustic guitar the correct way.

Please, do yourself a favor and build a regular acoustic guitar so you understand how they work. Save the experiments until you can actually build a guitar as it is suppose to be. My guess is that will be 3 or 4 builds. You can sell the ones you build to by the next one and on and on until you completely understand acoustic guitars.

OR....

Scrap the acoustic part all together and go to the Stew Mac and order yourself this:

http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bodies,_necks,_wood/Electric_guitar_necks/Through-body_Guitar_Neck.html

You can then build a guitar without having to even worry about the geometry other than your string path. Build an an acoustic body the shape of a Valentines day heart if you want because the body will have nothing to do with the geometry.

Just sayin...

Your friend,
Bob

The final angle on an acoustic neck is whatever is right for the body you made. It might work out to 1 or 2 degrees or something in between. It needs to be calculated and then still refined by flossing the cheeks of the neck to straighten and refine the angle. Robbie's course adresses this a little, but I just ordered John Mayes's DVD on neck setting to try and perfect my technique on this, my 4th guitar build. Bottom line, you may buy a neck with an angle already cut, but if your body geometry isn't complimentary with that, you still won't have the right neck angle. And without the right neck angle you may not have a playable instrument.
LMII has plans for building a mortise and tenon neck cutting jig (I believe you once said your a woodworker so it should be no trouble for you to build) which also sets the neck angle for your individual guitar body. You don't have to cut a mortise and tenon with it, you can just use it and a router to set your angle. I use something similar on mine.
This will save you a lot of money and using it helps visualize the creation of the angle and why it's necessary.

Beth,
Correct me if I am wrong but if you lay a straight edge on the angle he has the neck block set, it will never point to the bridge. In which case no matter what angle he puts on the neck there will always be that big hump where the neck block is the wrong angle.

Maybe I am not seeing something correctly the geometry is completely wacked.

Again, I am a new builder and have not even completed #1 but I have set probably 60 necks in my time and I think I know guitar geometry.

Anyone?

To me... It looks like he will never get there no matter what angle he has on the neck.

Bob