Official Luthiers Forum!

Hopefully, not all of you think that using this public forum to get information about how to fix machines is a waste of time

I think this is the ideal place for asking such things. If we can just keep the few whose meds needs adjusting out of the threads, we'd be actually get things ironed-out....

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The OLF is a loofers forum...you know, about building stringed musical instruments.
Its not the Official Machinist Forum.
Lapping a plane, sharpening a blade or tuning up a piece of machinery is
by no ways the main thrust of building a stringed instrument or this forum.

Yet when someone is dealing with a situation, some of the more experienced members (and me has been at this for over 50 years) are inclined to help. Not only are we inclined...we are happy to help and share of our knowledge and experience.

However, if you came to my shop wanting me to mentor you, you better have your chops down real good, cuz frankly ...me don't gots the time for the fundamentals...all sorts of fundamentalizem out there...me suggest you go take your pic ~ elsewere.

In the last few months there were two thread...one in which Chris V melted down on dudes who were just too lazy to use Google for their answers and I, me, ?adma don't blame him. The other one was regarding why the pros don't be posting much any more.

Well Duh!

Now Grumpy, I replied to this thread several times offering over a half dozen suggestions...alls you can come back with is.



First off. Me don't appreciate me words being taken out of context.
Secondly, if you think my advise is useless...why do you even bother to read my posts?

So I ask the forum...who needs the attitude adjustment here. Rhetorical...don't bother.

@ the original poster:

Wasting the time of forum members with a situation you already got covered under warranty and asking questions readily answerable in a users manual or a quick Google search is IMNSHO rather inconsiderate ... is akin to crying woof. So me hope you never run into any serious situations in one of your builds...cuz dude...me and me bet a few others gonna think twice before posting a reply.

Again...if ether of you jokers don't like what me post
don't go be reading them.

Like, how simple can it get!

Actually handles like "meddingfool " and "grumpy" should have been my first clue.

You dudes wanna learn about building stringed instruments this is a great site...

You wanna rattle cages and play games...
with all due respects, take off!



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@ Flipo...lets see how many hits this one gets? .


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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Pictures of that would be good - I'm having trouble figuring out what the screws are doing. I suspect my jointer needs a little tune up too, although it's generally still pretty good.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Perhaps it's your technique Machine tools, like all tools, take practice to learn to use properly. The jointer's tendency to snipe at the beginning and end of a cut is well known. You must register the workpiece firmly against the infeed table at the start of the cut, and firmly against the outfeed table at the end of the cut. This takes concentration and practice!
pvg

Yo Todd,
thank you for posting in grumpies defence...but sorry ...no cuppie doll.
His rudness and insults are violation of OLF rules and as such are unacceptable.

~ qui finis et extremum fabula cesses et desistes.


blessings.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Well gee Stock...congratulations on at least getting that point right.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I am racking my brains here trying to figure out who on earth you could have in mind ...

It could be my technique, but I don't think so. I've successfully jointed a few hundred panels on a different machine, so I think I've got 'the dance' down. As I mentioned, using the helpful info on this thread, I was able to diagnose a problem with the machine itself. Soon to be corrected.

Are you confusing a jointer with a planer ?

A far more important consideration than "technique" ( which can be taught in about three minutes) in preventing snipe on a jointer, is ensuring that the cutter edges are dead in line with the outfeed table, or just the merest smidgeon above ...if you rotate the cutter block by hand with a straightedge on the oufeed table, the straight edge should move about 1/8" when it makes contact with the edge. Much more than this and the outfeed table is set too low, and you run the the risk of snipe at the end of the cut.

Since this is a helical head jointer, I believe the cutter height is fixed. When I place a straightedge on the out feed table and hover it over the cutter, the blade just comes up and gives the straightedge the most gentle of kisses...l

The cutter height is indeed fixed, but the outfeed table is adjustable. Sounds like your set-up is just about spot-on.

I am intrigued to know what the actual cause of the problem is, and how it gets fixed.

Some (low-end) bench top planers I have encountered in my travels proved impossible to adjust totally snipe-free ...the only solution was to run a sacrificial piece of softwood hard against the trailing end of the workpiece, so that the softwood would take the snipe.

No jointer, however, should ever give snipe.

Ask Oblio and Arrow.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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20", huh ? My deductive faculties lead me to the inevitable conclusion that you have intentions of resuscitating the Stromberg Mammoth ...

And who are Arrow and Oblio btw?

http://celiacasper.com/oblio.html

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

As of today me following in Verhovencs footsteps and refusing to acknowledge
googleable questions.

Quit being so lazy dudes and do your own research from now on.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Actually, I did Google it ...after I posted ... but I still don't get the point ...

Hyuk yuk...

I believe Todd understands me better than a lot of folks who've met me in the flesh.... I don't suffer stupidity very well, and when I ask a question, I want advice, and if you don't have any practical advice to give, don't respond, or in the very least, say what you had to say, then shut up and stay out of it from there forth. But as you said Padloc, I don't have to read your posts, so I have stopped doing so; no clue what you wrote that made Todd respond in kind, but I do know you wasted a lot of your own time writing what it is you wrote. The only time I wasted was scrolling past it, and writing these few lines....

Back to the practical, yes, technique is important, and no, it takes more than 3 minutes. My brother, a cabinet maker, and I can't use the same jointer; what works for him doesn't for me, and vicey versey. The difference is tiny, but it has to do with how firmly we hold the stock against the infeed and outfeed tables. Not noticeable with standard stock(3/4" or thicker), but very noticeable with our thin tonewoods. Sounds like your outfeed table is a hair high; like Todd, I find that I want the knife to carry the straight edge a bit, about 1/8". I fine tune from there, until I get zero snipe if it isn't perfect already.

Back to my question, there's a technique that uses 3 discs or plates, in a similar method to making the straight edges(which I did make years ago, thanks!), involving a master, a A and a B plate/discs. Can someone describe it, or point to a resource? In order to flatten my tables, I want a true, perfect flat surface to register of of.

And back to practical: a machine shop charges roughly $40/hr more than I charge in my shop, so it DOES indeed make sense for me to do my own work. Plus, after learning to do it once, the skill set remains at my disposal for life. There's nothing learned in writing out checks to machine shops.... And finally, once again, it makes good sense to true-up the tables on my 15 year old, seasoned and unlikely to move further, jointer.

When checking the blade height in relation to the outfeed table, you should check both sides of the blade, and check all three blades, as well. If one blade is not set properly, it will cause snipe. Checking with a straight edge on the outfeed table on both sides of a helical cutter head will tell you if there is a twist in the table.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Mario: Using the three plate system means you will have to true 3 plates to do one table and 4 if you do both. Lots of work, depending on how bad the tables. Much easier if you could get access to a known surface such as surface plate. That and a bit of mechanics blue will give you an easier route.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Thanks Tom. I have .010" of total twist in the infeed table, and .023" in the outfeed. If I make the 3 plates(I've googled it just now and figured it out) I'll have 3 perfectly flat plates as references when done; why would I need a 4th one?

I do have a surface plate, but it's way too short...

And yes, great advice to check all the knives, and at various points across the entire cutting width.

I think I've got a plan!

I just remembered an old cast iron table that I use to clamp fretboards to necks, and the sharpen planes/chisels/etc.. by fixing abrasive to it. Checked it out, and it, and the tables, are within 1/4" in length of each other. There's my third plate, right?? By lapping all 3, I should have all three perfectly flat when done.

Now, where's that old tube of valve grinding paste.....

Edit: unless there's a problem with my idea?

Grump, I would use machinist bluing and only lap enough to indicate high spots. I would go at those high spots with something aggressive. You could scrape or orbital sand or angle grinder with 80 grit sandpaper disk. Then blue and check again. This is way easier and faster than trying to lap the whole surface with compound or sandpaper stuck to something. When you get closer to flat then you can blue, lap, scrape. You can take it as far as you want. I think you could improve things immensely without too much work. Well other than handling a couple of jointer tables multiple times as you do your flattening thing.
L.

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Mario: Your right, if your using both tables all you need is the other plate and your in business. I also agree with Link to get the bulk of the material removed. Scraping after that and then your lapping. Some work but no doubt if anyone can do it , you can.
Good luck.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!