Official Luthiers Forum!

Hi all! I just put my modest and new Jet (performax) 10-20 drum sander to test, and to my surprise (not) found that my vacuum cleaner is not up to the task.
I wonder if you guys could suggest me a capable (and not too expensive, if possible) dust extractor to go along with it? i´ve been looking at some (from Jet and axminster.co.uk) and discovered that there are ones suitable for chips and others that are capable of working with fine dust; is the later type preferable ? i ask this because they tend to be on the pricier side.

thanks for looking,
miguel.

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I use this http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awede-extractor-prod376272/, works really very well for a 10-20 (and bandsaw/belt sander/table saw), with a fine filter bag http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-awede2-fine-filter-bag-prod818492/(5 micron I think) but I also have a fine dust workshop (1 micron) filter nearby.
May best using http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-aw ... rod781189/ with it to keep the particle size down for health reasons.
There is a smaller version, but was advised by Axminster that this was marginal for the machine anyway, and any efficiency losses, e.g. long spiral hoses, fine dust filters, general clogging, etc would not help of course.
Axminster Customer Services were very helpful on the phone.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Hi, Miguel,

I notice that the recommended dust collection cfm rating for the 10-20 is 400. I suspect this is the minimum. I do not have experience with a benchtop sander, but with my dual drum sander, I have a 3hp 2280 cfm dust collector, and I find it to be sufficient. My old 2hp 1200 cfm unit was not adequate, for suction reasons as well as for filtering reasons.

If you plan on doing any amount of sanding, it will be worth your time to get a canister filter. The cloth bags clog up, stretch, and need to be replaced from time to time. Try to get a Delta or a General DC, as those are the ones with nylon-reinforced filters. (The nylon reinforcement is there to diminish wear from the integrated paddles that keep the filter clean.)

Are you able to get General International over there? If so, you might consider the 10-005, and the 10-105. Adding "CF" to the end of the model number gives you the canister filter option, for an additional $150-$200 CAD (I don't know pricing on your side of the pond, sorry.)

Assuming you're using it in an enclosed space, for health reasons you'll need very fine filtration for a sander, preferably sub-micron. Coarse filtration may do more harm to your air quality than no collector at all. Best solution is to blow it outside, if your space can handle the inflow of makeup air.

_________________
David Malicky

http://www.google.com/products/catalog? ... CHUQ8wIwAQ

I have this dust collector and the performax 16-32.

_________________
Old growth, shmold growth!

I have a 1hp 400 cfm DC hooked up to my 16-32 and that works just fine. Short hose helps too.

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Sanders make a lot of fine dust that quickly clogs filters. Before getting a new collector, you might want to try adding a Dust Deputy cyclone to your current vac. It will separate out the vast majority of the particles before they reach the filter. If your vac still won't cut it, the cyclone will still help if you upgrade to a bigger shop-vac.

http://www.oneida-air.com/category.asp?Id={CC6B6F2A-E3D7-4F18-A53C-B5C357DFE131}

_________________
http://www.chassonguitars.com

Thanks guys! Much valuable info, this place really is a precious resource.

Could you explain me this one, David, if you have the time?

cheers,
miguel.

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes

The dust that is most harmful to breathe is under 10 microns and invisible (the smaller it is, the deeper it goes into the lungs, and the harder for the lungs to remove). If the filter doesn't trap down to 0.5 micron, the "dust collector" just pumps that fine dust back into the air every time it is turned on--whether the sander is making new dust or not. Lots of good info:
http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclon ... lterBasics

_________________
David Malicky

ok, makes sense. thanks for the link too!

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I use a harbor freight dust collector, picked it up for 150 or so , I plan on getting the wynns enviromental filter cartridge soon , but it works great..
sorry the place is a little messy ,

_________________
MK5acoustics.com

I tried using a craftsman shop vac , but it got clogged very quickly , not to mention not enough cfm for the sander, having a dust collector seems to keep the sander cleaner and my guess is that the drum runs a little cooler as well..

_________________
MK5acoustics.com

OK, been thinking about those small 0.5 microns dust particles and i wonder - again - if it´s more sensible to buy a dust/chip extractor like the one Collin has (http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-ax ... rod376272/ - or similar) or to sacrifice the HP and go with a finer filtering capability (eg: http://www.axminster.co.uk/numatic-numa ... rod782719/ ), as for my budget it seems i won´t be able to get the "best of both worlds". i don´t intend to give the drum sander an heavy use, BTW, but some rosewood will go through it.

thanks again,
miguel.

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes

The numatic is rated at 150 m3/hr, I make that 88 cfm, recommended is 400 cfm for the 10-20, bit on the low side.
Airflow not only sucks away the dust from the machine, but helps removes the dust from the paper (slowing down loading it up) and cools the drum minimising distortion.
If you are only using for 10-20, and will be close to the machine there is:-
http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-axminster-awede2-extractor-waste-sack-and-quick-fit-strap--package-deal-prod861353/ with http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-awede2-filter-cartridge-prod781186/ for about £230 + delivery in you case(?) but again you would be best to contact customer services for micron rating and performance drop when fitted as it is not on the website.
As I remember for my set-up the told me the fine filter would reduce performance by 50%, giving 500 cfm with this set-up.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Wes,

I have the same collector you do. Could you provide a link to the Wynns cartridge?

Thanks,

Jim

_________________
Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm

Same setup I use with my HF collector. Simple installation and works great.

_________________
Wes McMillian
Santo, TX
http://www.wesmcmillian.com

I use this dust collector with my Jet 16-32 and it works great http://www.woodstore.net/cycduscol.html . I can't detect any dust coming from either the dust collector or the sander.
Mike

I agree - a garden variety shop vacuum just doesn't have enough oomph to really remove the dust from a drum sander....

After using a vacuum cleaner equipped drum sander at a local woodworker's club - I decided to go ahead and buy a proper small shop size dust collector.. I am very happy that I did.

When you start looking at the dust collector offerings out there - take a close look at the specs and efficiency... I found that the cheap Chinese models came with filtration that just isn't up to the task when working with woods that can possibly irritate allergies.... and the proper filter cost added quite a bit to the "Cheap" unit... Then - the CFM rating for the same size motor/amp rating was considerably lower as well... The prices were about the same when you were comparing apples to apples CFM and filter ratings... except the "Cheap" model was about 2x as big and had a huge motor on it....

Spend some time researching your purchase - you won't be sorry you did.... especially in a small shop.

Thanks

thanks everybody! due to the practical and logistical side of the equation, i think i might go with Collin´s suggestion.

cheers,
miguel.

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes

I just got a delta drum sander with rolling dust remover that works fine. Problem is it keeps tripping my breakers so I can't use them both simultaneously! Dang.

_________________
"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.