Official Luthiers Forum!

Too bad, I see that Martin's guitarmaker's connection no longer list the ivoroid binding.
Next best source?

Joe

Yes, They are out of Ivoroid till the middle of August. Don't know if they've simply stopped selling it on line or they needed the stock for production.
I do know they had G.C. send everything back that they had over to the factory.

I just ordered some from LMI. came this A.M. and it looks very much like the Martin material.
Order a large supply though as they charge an extra $25.00 Hazmat shipping fee (special box etc.)

Joe,

There's also Axiom at http://www.axinc.net/

Same shipping surcharge, but prices are a bit lower and they also sell sheets and cross-grain.

Pat

_________________
formerly known around here as burbank
_________________

http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Hey Joe,

I've always liked Axiom. I haven't used ivoroid in a while, but they have provided me with good service and a good product in the past...

-Mark

_________________
Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
OR
Find me on Facebook

HAZMAT shipping fee? Is this stuff radioactive or something? Is this some new regulation?

_________________
Old growth, shmold growth!

The reg has been in place for some time. The stuff is highly flammable. That being said, the fee is just a tad excessive methinks...

-Mark

_________________
Pullman, WA

The more I know, the more I know I don't know.

trippguitars.com
OR
Find me on Facebook

grizzly has it in stock .

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Not radioactive, but it will catch fire if it gets to hot and easily. It could make for a bad day. Light a ping pong ball up. POOF. Now do that on a guitar, Poofier. It was in the day composed in part with guncotton and a form of nitrate cellulose, anyway that is what I think the boss told me. I have a memory at times like a sieve. Highly flammable. I am not sure about the new stuff, but since has a hazmat deal, I wouldn't use it near a lot of heat or flame.

Thanks for the info guys!

Joe

Having set fire to to the stuff on a belt sander I can attest to it's awesome flammability.

Don't forget to log it into your guitar's carbon footprint log.

Whoever you order from, make sure they are long enough to around the whole perimeter of the instrument, if that's what you had in mind, or you'll be...

_________________
Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I do a lot of shipping in my business & that fee is what UPS or FedEx Ground charges. Ironically, my business had to stop selling fire extinguishers because the hazardous shipping fee was killing us.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Kevin, if you ship a fire extinguisher in the same box with some ivoroid binding will the 2 cancel each other out resulting in no haz mat charge?

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Todd at Allied has some. $50 minimum but I don't think there is an up-charge.

_________________
Wisdom is justified by her children

I have some as well, I just haven't listed it.

Shane

_________________
Canada

Ah, yes the ivoroid issue!

Just to clear a few things up:

1) We do not keep a nickel of the $25. It all goes to FedEx (in our case, our contract is with them) or to UPS (I think its the same amount with them).
2) If the material degrades, it can become even more flammable. We've never heard of it going up in flames in transit, but have heard that it is possible under some conditions. The regs come from the Department of Transportation and I think they are meant to protect workers who ship this stuff. If there were a fire in a truck, a package of Ivoroid could make a bad situation much worse.
3) We are required to purchase and maintain special cabinets to store it, to pay for special training for our employees and to package and label the stuff is strictly regimented ways. Those who do not (probably those who are not charging the $25) are probably not in accordance with the law, and may in some cases be endangering their employees.
4) It is a per package fee. We charge $25 per package whether there are one or 500 strips in the box. If you use Celluloid Nitrate plastics (Ivoroid, fake Mother of Pearl, Tortoise) with any regularity, or plan to, it behooves you to order as must as possible in one shipment.

I hope this helps!
Chris

Recently-made celluloid has excess camphor, which makes spontaneous combustion in transit very unlikely. And as you indicated, there is no history of it happening.



If you ship it in a cardboard box, then it will burn if the truck catches on fire. That was true before the regulations, and it is still true.



The problem is that none of the information you provided jives with the real world, where finished items with celluloid parts are not regulated. That includes pickguards that are installed or not installed. And guitars with celluloid binding are shipped regularly with no restrictions.

_________________
John

I wouldn't press the issue and just pay the fee or you'll be paying the fee on those guitars as well. I forget what state or town it was where the speed limit for Semi Trucks on the freeway was 50mph and 60 mph for cars and the public was complaining the Trucks were slowing down traffic an making it unsafe. So it was decided to make it all one speed limit of 50mph.
Kind of funny that when I drove a Hazmat load I only got paid $50 for a 53' trailer. I'd be complaining to FedX and UPS about the charge. They're the ones making the money on shipping.

John,
I agree that it does not jive with the real world. I am just trying to explain the current laws by attempting to read the governments mind! Unfortunately, ignoring the laws and regulations, no matter how weird, meddlesome and expensive, is not an option for us. As with the import and export of regulated woods, there are vaguely defined exemptions for "finished" goods (a guitar with ivoroid binding) as opposed to raw materials (ivoroid binding strips as we sell them).
Chris -LMI

I've never quite understood the rationale behind the government regulation, but that's true of most regulations, so I won't go there. I get around the problem by buying a two year supply from LMI every time I go to the Healdsburg Guitar Festival. I just put it in my luggage and bring it home with me. So far, no one has inspected by bags at least that I know of.

_________________
Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com