Official Luthiers Forum!

Brock's offering of that gorgeous Maple set got me thinking. I wonder what the acoustic properties of the different types Maple are. I see Big Leaf Maple, "soft" Maple, "hard" Maple and European Maple on the internet. How would the different types rate for making a classical guitar?

Thanks,
Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

As far as I know, there are 3 main species used in instrument building:
Acer pseudoplatanus (European maple, sycamore maple)
Acer macrophyllum (big leaf maple, soft maple)
Acer saccharum (sugar maple, hard maple, rock maple)

And then to add more confusion, pseudoplatanus may be called hard maple sometimes too.

In my observations, rock maple is mostly used for bridge plates and electric necks, European for acoustic necks, backs and sides (and is the traditional wood for violins), and big leaf is mostly backs and sides.

Colonial Tonewoods has some rock maple back/side sets though, so it certainly does work for that too.

Not sure on the acoustic difference between the types. It would be interesting to hear 3 guitars built the same aside from the back/side wood.

Thanks, Filippo and Dennis. Any others who have built with Maple like to chime in? I read in Jose Romanillos' book that Antonio de Torres sometimes built with Maple. In fact Tarrega's first Torres guitar was made of Maple and considered by Emilio Pujol as the best guitar he had ever heard.

Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

I know quite a bit about maples, but it relates mostly to mandolins and mandolas, but for what it's worth and all this is speaking in generalities...
European maple...some of the better stuff I've used is Bosnian, and it's sort of a medium soft, most always quartered and lends a richer tone to the topwood.
Bigleaf maple...usually softer, can be quartered, flatsawn, rift, flamed, quilted, is also richer, doesn't sand well (really fiberous), and combined with German or maybe Englemann can make a very "dark" sounding instrument.
Sugar maple...preferred by some mandolin builders, but to my way of thinking will not make a good bluegrass mandolin (Loar tone) when combined with red spruce. To me, it sounds like a drawer full of silverware tossed down a flight of stairs. Very crisp sounding and works with German spruce.
Red maple...my favorite for mandolins and produces that Loar tone when combined with red spruce and properly carved. Slightly richer than sugar and not so irritating.
So, what can you deduce from this? I would say that it would be similar for guitars based on my experience. The top wood is the major contributor to the tone and the back modifies that tone. For instance if you wanted a very rich complex tone, you might go with German spruce and Euro or bigleaf. If you wanted a very fundamental, piercing tone, you might go with red spruce and sugar.

For me, I like big leaf best for its sound (and it tends to have richer figure) but as Haans says it is fiberous and doesn't sand very well.

Euro looks very nice, creamier and whiter in appearance and has a "tighter" look.

Both sound great, but I like the sound of big leaf best. I think it is a highly under rated tonewood.

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Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

Once we get the species characteristics 'nailed down', then we can move on to flatsawn and quartered, grain character...'quilt', 'curly', 'birdseye', etc.

I've had birdseye hard maple recommended as a good choice (for a classical), but it is still on the shelf here.

I think great makers can use pretty well anything and get a good (or very good) guitar; for me it's another thing entirely!!

Cheers
John

I'm very interested in this question, too, especially as applied to the classical guitar.

I'm planning on making a Torres FE17, basing it upon my earlier FE17 exploration. As noted, FE17 used flame maple, but nowhere have I read what species of maple was used. Torres also Bird's Eye, which I believe, is only expressed in hard maple. This makes me wonder if the flame maple he used is also hard maple as it was an "exotic" in Europe at that time.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

Doug,

I suspect that Torres used European Maple (Acer Pseudoplatanus). I've checked both Madinter and Maderas Barber in Spain on the internet and they show their highest grade European Maple with "flame" or fiddleback figure.

Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

Max, I suspect that, too, but there does not seem to be a definitive answer. Baring information to the contrary, I expect that I'll use European maple when the time comes.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

Another species that is not really suitable is Silver Maple, which I've actually built with - first guitar, and a tree in my backyard which I wanted to do something interesting with..........and 4 years, 6 guitars and $$$$ later.........

Anyway, wouldn't do it again. Easy to work with, but not really hard enough, and I don't particularly like the tone. Good first guitar, though.

I think Seagull Guitars uses silver maple for necks.

Chuck

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In fact, Godin use it for their electric necks. I would be surprised that seagull does the same, it's a submark of godin.

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Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars

For your reference 'shelf'...

Acer buergeranum Trident Maple
Acer campestre Hedge Maple
Acer davidii David Maple
Acer distichum Sugar Maple, Rock Maple, Hard Maple
Acer ginnala Amur Maple
Acer griseum Paperbark Maple
Acer macrophyllum Big leaf maple, Soft maple
Acer orientale Turkish Maple
Acer palmatum Japanese Maple
Acer platanoides Norway Maple
Acer pseudoplatanus Planetree Maple, Sycamore Maple, ‘European Maple’
Acer rubrum Red Maple, Scarlet Maple, Swamp Maple
Acer saccharinum Silver Maple, River Maple, White Maple, Soft Maple
Acer saccharum Sugar Maple, Rock Maple, Hard Maple
Acer shirasawanum 'Aureum' Fullmoon Maple
Acer sieboldianum Siebold Maple
Acer spicatum Mountain Maple
Acer tataricum Tatarian Maple


additions to the list are welcome!

Lots of useful info at
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=ACSA2
Cheers
John

You are both right, in a way.
The Godin website specs Rock (hard) maple for the Godin maple-neck electrics, and Silver leaf maple for the Seagull acoustics.

I've use silver to good effect in a mandolin topped with blue spruce. It lends a richer sound, not as much bite as with the hard maples. I liked it very much for this application. The piece I had was quite hard, salvaged from a local tree trimmer's lot and then aged about a year before use. I've still got a couple wedges of it.

Alan D.

Acer nigrum Black Maple, Hard Maple
Acer negundo Box-Elder, Ashleaf Maple

Out west, we also have Acer glabrum (Western Mountain Maple), Acer grandidentatum (Canyon Maple), and Acer circinatum (Vine Maple), but these are rarely big enough to be of use to luthiers.

Actually, if I would have been able to find flamed silver maple, I surely would have used it on F4's. I have a '21 Gibson F4 that I think is silver maple and the tone is glorious.

Haans, If you still want to do a silver maple F4, let me know... I have some and may actually find it when I move my lumber.

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

live every minute...

Thanks for the offer Chris, but I'm getting out of the mandolin business...

Sorry.. I forgot. Retired.

I'll still have some for you when you get back in the business.

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Chris Oliver
Infinity Luthiers
...in the shop.

live every minute...

A guitar builder in California emailed me "Rumor has it that you've retired from one form of Lutherie to another." I emailed him back, "Rumor has it I'm using oak too."
I have a few more mandolins to make and then I will likely quit building mandolins for good.