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As it goes I have found myself in the enchantment stage of building my first guitar. I know I can buy plans to make a certain guitar like a gibson L-00 but what I really want to do is draw one up myself. Is there any where I can find out about drawing my own shape and what the general rules are if there are any? If not where is the best place to buy plans. I found some at GAL for the L-00. Thanks for the help!

Jerry

There are plenty of plans and books about guitar construction you can buy but there's very little published in book form regarding the information you would need to design your own guitar.

Places like this forum are the best for that, I think. You'll need to spend a whole lot of time doing research
before you even touch a piece of wood.

Or you could start with a proven design by one of the known makers and evolve your own by
experimenting on successive instruments.

Either way, it's a long, wonderful road.

Jerry-
There are some good-looking (free) plans for a Gibson L-00 at
http://www.grellier.fr/plans/Gibson_L-00/Gibson_L-00_en.pdf
Most copy places will print from a .pdf file.
If you really are enchanted with the guitar-building hobby/addiction, you will build more than one guitar.
For your first guitar, I'd advise following an up-to-date, simple method like the one in Kinkead's book.
If you don't have a good workshop and a 'pile of tools', a 'serviced' kit can make things move along a bit faster, while still providing plenty of challenge.

Cheers
John

Welcome to the OLF Jerry!

This is a pretty common question for new builders. Not to deter you but I would agree with runamuck, start with a proven design, get your feet wet with a design that you known will work.

There are just so many points of failure that unless you have at least some understanding of why things are the way they are, you are likely not to be very satisfied with the end result.

Build a few first then start experimenting.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Great advise. Yes, it is a long and wonderful road and I fully expect to travel it.

If I choose to make to plan it will be the L-00. I've been doing research for quite some time now. I have Compiano's book and have been through it, along with various luthier sites and of course the infamous youtube.

As for the wood, it's too late.... I touched it. I have a back and sides large enough for a dreadnought. It's figured Moabi (african pear wood). I also have a solid figured sitka spruce top from Alaska Specialty Woods. I think that right now I have the drive and patience to do this but will be acquiring the necessary tools as I go. Time is not a concern right now.

I made a go bar deck and radius dish. The dish I made was done using Chris Paulik's (I hope I spelled his name right) technique. Took me awhile to figure that out. I'm working on a shooting board and plane now.

As far as designing one.... anyone have any thing to offer?

Lance, John,

Thanks! For what I do at work I think that I can get through this. Tight tolerances and a QC background should help, that and a desire not to fail. Yet the real view should be failure is just another step toward success.

I am looking at the L-00 and have Gelliers PDF file.

So now to sound really stupid, I take it that you would have this plan printed full size and then use the plan as a template?


By the way.... I think this place is awesome!! but I'm sure my wife will help me with that.....haha

Well hello Mr. Wheeler,

Follow this link and download the program http://liutaiomottola.com/formulae/gthang.htm, this will help you design a body. Once you have the shape sorted out, decide what scale length you like and at which fret the neck will join the body. Once you have that, we can help you with the bracing. I wouldn't listen to Lance, John or "Run", they're just trying to repress you creative side. I'll insert this so they know I having fun with them.

Steve

If the price is reasonable, I'd get a few copies made- then you can glue (parts of) the plan to thin plywood or plexiglass to make patterns you can draw around for making molds, etc. (There was a thread on this recently here ....http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=27229)
Otherwise, it's tracing, carbon/transfer paper, etc...
Also, double-check the dimensions of the paper plan against your fingerboard, scale length, or some other standard. Paper changes dimension with humidity, and most printers add a bit of distortion as well.

Cheers
John

Steve, Whhooowww... there's another Wheeler here? Nice scoot!! Mine say's Yamaharley all over it
I'll check out the download and see what I can do. I knew this was the right place!

John, If I can I'll try to get it done in Mylar. Shouldn't have the same problem as paper.

Thanks to all!!

Does anyone else copy plans to say, acrylic, by laying the sheet over plans, marking outlines on the protective sheet on the acrylic, bandsawing and refining the shape?
Saves the plan.
Maybe because I'm Scottish!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

I will probably get shot down in flames by the more experienced , but I like the ide aof designing your own.... with the following caveats:

1. The shapes that are proven are proven for a reason - They work, not just structurally and tonally, but also asthetically - they were not achieved just by luck, but by careful design stages and evolution rather than revolution - even the more avant guard designs you are still evolutions of proven principles and serious time invested in the design process which is not just about the look, but if anything more importantly, structural integrity and tonal output.

2. I think what you are asking (please correct me if I am wrong) is really that you want to put your personal asthetic on your first guitar... and IMHO Good for you! BUT the advice above is very good - afterall, its also teh approch most experienced folk would take, in that the starting point has to eb somthing that is proven to work - Therefore I would suggest the following - take a standard design such as the KInkade OM or other and use this for the basis. This ensures you will have a basic pattern and bracing that will work. Take the body shape template and make SMALL variations that you feel you like...cut out your shape and stick it on the wall - leave it for a few days and then look at it again... its surprizing how soon what we think looks great to start with, becomes 'odd' or 'unnatural' - do a few more - remembering that eve taking 4 mm off an upper or lower bout or pinching teh waist can make huge differencs to the final look... take it sloww and keep to that process of reviewing aftera a few days - also ask other guitarists what they think, and dont be too precious if they think it sucks... remember the process is rarely finsihed quickly.

3. Finally, its not just about look, but about practicalities - will your shape still be comfortable for playing? Will it be balanced and sit well when sat down?

For what its worth, I am in the process of develping a shape that I can call my own... well it will probably only be a mm here and there from what someone else has done but hey, it will be mine

Its taken 3 versions and I think I am getting close, but have hidden the latest template for a couple of weeks and will look at it fresh again shortly - FYI, I stated with two standard shapes and drew them on a clean sheet superimposed - I them made a series of very small 'morph' like changes and cut out about 4 or 5 - tyook what I though was the best to my class and asked a good friend for opinion.... whet back to the darwing board!

The process is fun, but takes time!

Uhm... thats assuming, for example that everyone likes the squarer shouldered OM Martin style - smothing the upper surfaces of the upper bout does create a pleasing shape... its all personal taste naturally, but you can have fun with this exercise and it very quickly teaches you how difficult it is to get a 'new shape' right.

I think the point i was trying to get at is that there are a lot of reasons guitars are shaped and sized like they are.
Building one takes a lot of time and effort, even if you start with a kit and you will make plenty of mistakes, learn a lot along the way and will no doubt be very proud when you string it up and play that first chord!
The problem with trying to "design" one the first time out, is that the current and proven designs are
based on decades of trial and error to finally find the magic mixture of measurements.

All that said, if you are determined to design your own then I say more power to you and enjoy!
Make sure to take LOTS of detailed notes, weights and measurements so you can either repeat or
change your design for your next effort.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

The decisions on where to start in making a new guitar are many and you will live with them for many months, and when the guitar is done, you will continue to live with them.

Personally, I recommend backing up and defining the goals of you project. Do you want one guitar that you will call your own, or do you plan on making a few guitars, or making this a career. What do you like to do with your shop time. Make yourself happy, it is your time and money, and it will be your guitar, set yourself up to enjoy your shop time and the process. There are tons of reasons guitars don't get done other then going off standard plans.

Depending on how radical your ideas are, there is less and less help available, the experienced builders do not know, and will not ponder with your, "what happens if" questions. If you really want to know, what happens if, then work on your jigs and setups, when you can put together a set of sides, build a neck and attach it, then it is time to ask, what happens if, the top and back are critical, but not really the hard part.

If you want to make your own plans and your own guitar, and it will keep you working, do your research, and go for it, but be happy with the results even if they are less then what you wanted.

I have an experimental guitar, does not fit in a case, looks like hell, I call her Jane Eyre, love playing it, but I don't take her out of the house, sounds good for certain things, not so good for others. I followed that up with the 20's Gibson L-O plans from GAL, I like the size and shape, and the plans are for some odd bracing that must not work, or Gibson would still be using it. So I used the size and shape, and all the info from here and some books, and made a bracing plan that is close to standard, the exercise was to learn the whys of bracing size and placement, not just to brace a guitar according to a recipe. Part of my goal of the build.

For advice on experimenting, put your pretty wood to the side, if your idea will work, it will work with cheap wood too. To me the big advantage of cheap wood is the lack of fear in ruining it, it is easier to work, mistakes are not costly, get more cheap wood and try again. This thinking works for my building goals, enjoy
Rob

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I think we also need to define what we mean by 'new design'. Working on a shape with subtle changes that do not require alterations in brace positions etc is one thing and can add a personal touch without a great deal of risk... but the rules of trial and error still apply... so revisting teh shape several time and getting input/review before committing to wood is a good thing. Major redesign involving bracing pattern, types structural innovation is a whole different ball game as as those above have said requires a very structured approach, a high degree of experience and understanding of the basic, standard and advanced principles first and is not the territory of the beginner... but i dont think that was what we were talking about... more the smaller personal changes that eith destroy a perfectly good shape or enhanse it and the beauty is in the eye of the beholder...

One thing for definite though, if the OP is attempting a new design, do ONE thing at a time, so that you can begin to understand the changes in tone that, this change has provided... why its alwyas good to have a standard to compare it against - and record the detailks and try and keep all other things standard... Like Lance said alot depends on what the long term goal is... if its just build something personal, why not?

Every bit of advice here is taken to heart. My goals right now are to do things slow and simple. Yesterday I had a plan that was mention put to paper and mylar. Mylar does not has very little if any coefficient of thermal expansion or contraction. I will be starting with the Gibson L-00 and doing things slow. I prefer to make my own jigs and fixtures if possible. I'm still very interested in the physics and the rules that make a guitar sound the way it does. So as I go I will be looking for answers to questions.

The original posted question was "I know I can buy plans to make a certain guitar like a gibson L-00 but what I really want to do is draw one up myself." I sure was not clear enough with this question but wow have I gotten a ton of great advice. What I'm really looking to do is take a proven design and and draw it. I'm really not looking to re-invent the wheel, just understand the principles of guitar design and what makes it sound so unique.

The responses here are all over the board from subtle changes to radical designing. This isn't bad and it certainly gives me plenty to think about. Steve Wheeler gave me a link to a sight that gave me a little info on design. Thanks Steve!! Thanks to all that given such great advice.

Gerould-
Even if you have a published plan in hand, it is a useful exercise to go through the design 'process'.
IMO the body shape is the last thing to worry about.
Start with the fingerboard or the measurements from it.
Locate the neck/body join and the bridge position, then soundhole (how many frets are you going to have?).
From the bridge position (and size), you will get ideas about where the braces should fall, etc...

Doing a 'side view' with the same elements (fingerboard, bridge/saddle, desired action/string position off the soundboard) will give you ideas about how the neck geometry and soundboard arching works into the design.

Having those drawings/sketches nearby will help when you want to 'double check' a measurement from the plans- it can help to avoid mistakes...better than just following a 'cookbook'.

Cheers
John

I'm nowhere near the level of most of the folks on here. And I think it is best to start with a proven plan. Having said that,I have never used a standard plan. And the whole point for me is to have fun and experiment. I have been around guitars for 30 years and am very tired of same old designs over and over. So if I couldn't attempt something unusual I doubt I would be building. I respect the traditions and want to understand why they are there, but utlimately I think it is great to carefully do something different.

Hi Todd

I dont dispute any of what you say there, and my posts were perhaps not as clear as they should have been.... I am though, a little curious (philosophically ) about the need to compare what you build to existing to assess your success? Is it not totally relative? If I compared my first to a factory cheapo it blows it out the water, mid range factory, tonally its still better, but cant compare on finish quality and detail, against top end instruments, it is obviously no where near... so when evelautaing the success of early instruments is it not better to assess against your own objectives at the start? and review its a s an instrument in its own right? Just a question, as I would be interested in how you guys evaluate early instruments and what critical sufccess factors you use for these - Its interesting because this kind of thing can really help in the learning process and ensure builders dont feel too discouraged early on if all things dont turn out as expected - The important factor being what has been learned? thoughts welcome?