Official Luthiers Forum!

First off, My name is Jason and I'm brand new to the forums and have never build a guitar. I've played them for many years and really enjoy the beauty of these instruments. I want to enter the world of guitar building, and I'm in the "read everything I can" phase. I'm going to start with a kit as I hear that's the best way to get started without having to buy all the special tools first. BUT.. I'm a guy who likes to do things right, with the right tools of the proper quality. I searched the boards here a bit for a tool list for beginners and didn't find it, I'm sure it's here somewhere though. I thought I would ask here because I know the quality of the answers would be top-notch.

So for a kit, which tools would I need to do the job right if wielded properly, and if I prove somewhat capable and decide to try a from scratch build down the road, which power tools and power tool sizes would I need. One more thing.. as far as power tools go, is there a specific brand I should stick to so I don't get expensive junk? I appreciate your time folks!

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Jason-
Welcome to the OLF!
It would probably help prospective advisors if you described how much space yo have for your shop,what tools you own now, and what sort of wood projects you have made in the past (if any).
Anyway, for a start, check out the tool list in the kit instructions at StewartMacDonald:
http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Kits/Acoustic_Guitar_Kits/Triple-O_Guitar_Kit.html?tab=Instructions#details
I wouldn't go too 'crazy' on getting very high quality tools if this is your first project. You can make a good guitar with average tools, if you keep them sharp (so sharpening stones would be high on my list). The tool collection can come later...and it will!

Cheers
John

The best advice I can give is go to Stewart McDonald & Luthier's Mercantile sites & check out their catalogues.
They both carry the essential basics for the various tasks you need to perform.
They both also sell "serviced kits" with sides pre-bent & necks pre shaped. For a person just starting out, these kits can get you on your way without the initial outlay on expensive specialized tooling.
I believe our sponsor John Hall at Blues Creek Guitars can supply you with a serviced kit also.
Yours is a big question & cannot be easily answered in a couple of paragraphs...
Once you have a GOOD plane or two, a set of decent chisels & some scrapers... AND the means to sharpen them, you don't really NEED a lot of power tools. They add speed & precision, but a skilled person can do everything necessary without them.
Your best bet might be to find a luthier in your area & offer to pay him for a couple of hours of his / her time. Check out all of the tools & equipment they have & ask as many questions as you can. It'll probably save you time & money in the long run.
I had the great good fortune to "apprentice" under an experienced luthier when I built my first few instruments. I swept his floors & sharpened his tools & helped him at shows. In return he let me use his shop & imparted some of his valuable knowledge. I am still much in his debt.
Good luck on your journey...

I just started my first a few months ago and owned a pipe wrench, a few sockets, and a screwdriver when I started.

I have no room for any power tools (my workbench I made is set up in the hallway of my apartment hehe) other than a cordless drill and a dremel. I am not finished yet, maybe getting close to halfway, but here is the list of tools I have used the most.

1/8th and 1/2 inch chisels (Two Cherries)
Nicholson cabinet rasp #50
mini plane from luthiersuppliers
cheap coping saw from harbor freight
Marples Japanese style pull cut saw from Home Depot
Zona saw from LMI
a few rulers of various kinds plus a square
a bunch of clamps (2 6" cam clamps, 2 8" cam clamps, a set of Irwin Quick Grip clamps, a boatload of little plastic harbor freight clamps at 90 cents for 6 of them)
cordless drill with various bits, mostly a 10mm for the tuner holes
dremel with circle cutter attachment and a few different bits for both routing binding ledge and routing the rosette channel
sharpening stuff (lots of options here)

then other random things like some glue (from LMI) some shellac, tape, wax paper....

I think thats about it.

I did buy a few other tools that I didnt really use much at all, but that covers the main ones. Never used a plane other than the mini plane, but haven't really come across any time where I needed it.

A lot depends also on how much of the kit has been done for you. I didnt need to bend the sides or thickness the plates, which helped a great deal.
If you have room for a bandsaw though.... if I could buy any one big power tool that would be it. I have wished I had one many times while sawing and sawing and sawing by hand heh.

Hi Jason, welcome to the OLF. Are you sure you want to do this? Of course you are! Well, get ready for some fun....and to spend way more money than you every thought!

Actually, there are loads of old threads about which tools to buy first etc. Go back to the search engine and put in "essential tools" and search on the Forum Archive (not the Guitar Building Forum). Then read, read, read....

See ya around the OLF.

Cheers,
Dave F.

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Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"

check out my tutorials at http://www.bluescreekguitars.com . The thing with tools ,so many go overboard and buy tools that they gotta have only to find out they are gotta look at. Molds are on the top of the list . Most processes can be done with simple hand tools , but binding is one of the harder processes.
For beginners I suggest to see if you can find a mentor near you. The first guitar is more a process in learning the process. Don't expect your first guitar to be the best as you have much to learn. Gluing techniques have to be clean. Go bar decks help and where you get you kit.
Check out this vid link to help you understand the geometry of the guitar, as there is more to it than gluing on a neck.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ues+creek+
Pay attention to bending #3 as this gets into the geometry and what you need to help avoid the 14th fret hump and assure a good neck set up. Also I have a series on dovetail neck setting. Good luck on the journey . Feel free to visit the forums and ask questions but expect to hear conflicting views as there is no 1 way to do things. We are here to help

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Thanks to all who chimed in! My "shop" will be my detached garage, its about 14' wide and 18' log (approx).
I am reading the Guitarmaking book by Cumpiano/Natelson right now, should I construct a guitar-shaped work-board right from the start like they recommend? Or would that be overkill.. My garage is pretty much a blank slate right now, my father and I plan to build all the benches/work-spaces ourselves. I think I'll try to find pics of other shops to see their arrangement so I dont use my smaller space poorly. Again, thank all of you for your input.

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Hi Jason and welcome to the OLF!

You might want to check out Cumpiano's web site for updates to his book (Natelson's too) and you will find that Cumpiano no longer uses a work board for steel strings and instead uses an outside mold. It's probably fair to say that most steel string builders today, including the fact*ries... use outside molds too.

Your shop space sounds great and is plenty large enough. While it's a blank slate as you said it would be a great time to give some thought to controlling the relative humidity as required for guitar building. In fact when I built my shop in my basement constructing the shop to control humidity was job one here.

For guitar building you want to build under controlled conditions so that when your guitars are exposed to swings in temp and humidity which are part of life as a guitar... they will survive without cracking, having the top cave inward, etc. A pretty well accepted humidity number is 42 - 48% for the range that you may want to equip your shop to maintain. Temp is more for builder comfort so long as you also consider glue jelling temps and the fact that many dehumidifiers need about 70F to even begin to work....

Lastly for the control of humidity (RH) a reliable method to determine what the RH actually is should be something that is understood before any building begins. Digital hygrometers suck - all of them.... and mechanical hygrometers are inaccurate too unless they have been recently calibrated. Learn to do a wet-bulb test which is cheap and easy to do and learn and then get a hygrometer that can be calibrated and you will be good to go.

Again welcome aboard!

That's a decent size for a shop, bigger than my spare bedroom shop which is tight but fairly well-equipped. The killer for a spare garage is going to be humidity control. I've learned that lesson the hard way, and I even thought I was being careful enough about it. Your heart will sink when you look at that pretty box you've assembled and the once-arched back goes concave and the top starts cracking, and knowing it will never be right unless you route off the bindings and take it all apart.

I'd shop your local craigslist for stationary power tool deals, lots of folks are unloading their tools in this economy. Do lots of research, lots of folks think their used tools are worth what they paid for them when they were new. There are some nice deals out there if you're patient.

You'll never go wrong with getting decent measuring and marking tools. A good straightedge, set of rules, squares, marking knife, etc. Woodcraft has a pretty decent selection of that sort.

I'd also load up on 6" bar clamps at Harbor Freight when they go on sale, and a 6" digital caliper when it's on sale.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

Pasteeater is right -

the garage will be rough to work in, unless it is properly humidified and temp controlled. I use my garage for the rough work, which makes dust and lots of chips. Basically all the machines are in the garage. Band saw, Drill press for Safe-t-planer, palm sander.
The rest of my work involves measuring, hand planing, and carving (neck wood) - that happens inside - in my home office. I put together two file cabinets and placed a maple top on them both. So now I have a 5' x 2' workbench. Plenty of space to build one guitar at a time.

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It's this new idea from recent decades that everyone gets a participation award. - MUX

Todd Stock has a pretty comprehensive list of tools on this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=24532&p=332510&hilit=tool+list#p332510

I came to guitar building from making furniture as a hobby. Many of the luthier specific tools I've needed, I have made. I have bought a bit/bearing set from LMI and a bridge pin reamer. But I started out with other power and hand tools.

Glad to have you here. This forum is one of the best tools you can find. The ability to ask a question and have so many be able to help is one of the best assets you'll have.

Darrin

Welcome to OLF. You might want to check out the "Kit Building 101 at the OLF" part of the forum too. Many questions are answered over there relative to tooling, and getting started with kits. Not trying to brush you off, but if you have not checked it out you will probably learn a lot from the posts over there.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Jason,

Welcome to a great forum. Great answers available for all of your questions. Good advice above, especially about searching the forum (both active sections and archives)-almost any question you may have will probably have been discussed at some time. Another great resource that helped me a lot is Kathy Matsushita's website- a very comprehensive site that has tool lists, shows many of the jigs you may want to obtain or build, and shows several builds in detail.

http://home.comcast.net/~kathymatsushita/

Living in Michigan, you will probably have to either restrict your building during the hottest, most humid, and coldest times of the year, until you can put some climate controls in place, as mentioned above.

Have Fun, it can be an addicting hobby...

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Gene

Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason- Mark Twain

I'm building my first and the way I am getting my tools is buying them as I need them. It can be a slower method, but it makes sure you only get what you need.

Jason,

I just started my #2 about 2 weeks ago, so I am just about 1/2 step ahead of you. As for your Cumpiano guitar board, I built one, although I did not assemble on it. I used a outside mold (shapes/holds sides) to assemble with a go-bar deck. BUT, I still used the guitar board a lot. If you don't have a nice bench yet, you will need some flat surface to plane the plates/sides to thickness (if this is not done for you in the kit) and this workboard works well for that. I also use it for a number of things like cutting my rosette etc. It is nice to be able to clamp the "neck" section of the workboard to your bench and over hang the body to work on things.

As for basic list of tools, I went the hand tool route because I have little money for this hobby. As always, there is 1,000 to approach the tool area. You can buy used, antique tools - this takes lots of time to research, find, restore and tune them, but is by far the cheapest route to quality tools. Good quality hand tools are made by a number of manufacturers - Lie Nielson, Veritas, Kona, and others. Power tools are not my forte (see everyone else's posts).

My list would include these to start:

#5, 6, or 7 plane for flattening/thicknessing all kinds of things
#4 plane for smoothing
Block plane
Cabinet scraper
1/4 and 1/2 chisels
dovetail or other back saw (many use japanese style pull saws)
Kona Razor saw
coping saw
square (needs to be accurate - an engineer's square is great)
18-24" ruler or a NICE tape measure (1/64ths are nice for laying out frets)
box cutter/Xacto knife
wood rasp and a few metal files for shaping
hand drill and brad-point bits (even if you have a drill press, these are usefull)
Lots of clamps, or a hefty dose of creativity
Lots of sand paper

This list is by no means "complete" in a pro's eyes (and I'm probably forgetting a few things). But, you could build a guitar shaped piece of wood with these

Oh, and two tools you will definitely have to special order - tapered reamer for pegs and a fret file.

I built almost all my clamps, jigs and many tools as I went. I did a lot with a small gramil/circle cutter/marking gauge/whatever-you-call-it that I built. Good luck and you have found the right place for help, advice, wisdom, and encouragement. Folks around here are truly amazing.

Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm confidant I can pick up a few tools now and order my kit! As for the humidity in my garage, I may do what John A. said, do the dirty work out there, and then come inside for the other stuff. I'm thinking I may move my computer equipment our bedroom, and have a small setup in my office (8x10). Seems a bit small, but if the majority is out in the garage, this room should be adequate until I can properly control the environment in the garage. I had plans to attach the garage to the house and build an attached one in front of it, more parallel to the house... the detached garage is only "detached" by about 3 feet off the back corner. I wasn't going to attempt that project for a while, but if I get hooked building guitars.. it may happen a lot sooner Thanks again folks!

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Good luck with your 1st guitar.

Daniel: I would welcome an opportunity like that. I'm in the perfect situation, I'm laid off from GM right now and have loads of spare time. If I knew of anyone like that in my area, I'd jump at the chance!

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I was kinda worried about that.. I've been stressing about exactly what tools to get that would get me at least through the first part of the build. I came to the conclusion last night that I'd get some saws, clamps and get a workspace ready, and then get started on the kit. I'm going to get a "serviced" kit, and I have no intention of just hurrying and "slapping a guitar together" no doubt the results would be disastrous. So I"ll start there and buy what I need when I need it...there is a Woodcraft nearby. Thanks again!

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What are your thoughts on Central Machinery products?.. Their low price worries me.

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You are right to be worried. Harbor Freight has a few "gems," but things with motors are not among them.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR

This is real good advice, and something I have been guilty of... trying to get the shop perfect before starting.

I somehow missed that post of Todd's. That advice is pure gold.

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Jonathan Kendall, Siloam Springs AR