Official Luthiers Forum!

...remember to ask very clear and explicit questions about the quality of the stuff.

By the way... Do anyone need some knotty walnut sides or a rotten redwood top or two? How about some halfway fractured redwood sides? I guess I just learned a lesson...

you may have protection if you used paypal. Know your supplier. As a seller of tonewoods . I know there are some guys out there that will take advantage. Grades if wood are subjective at best. One suppliers AAAA is anothers A

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Seems like everyone that has some "figured" wood believes that they have "tonewood." Also, lots of wood-mongers don't even know what "figure" is, and isn't. For example, flatsawn wood with massive runout (lots of annular rings erupting through the surface/face of a board) is not figure. And don't get me started on the interpretations of the word "quartersawn!" Anything that isn't flatsawn is sold by someone, calling it quartersawn. Hidden drying defects like honeycomb may have been missed by the seller (if they did not have a whole bad load that they are trying to unload), but selling wood as "flawless" when it has deep surface checking, long end checking, twist, etc., etc. etc. is somewhere between ignorance and fraud.

Yeah. Know your seller, or be prepared to get burned. There are happy surprises on Ebay, but there are lots of nasty surprises and disappointments out there too.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

As 1/2 SWEDE, I can tell you there are many jokes about us Scandinavians. Buying wood on ebay only adds to the comic repertoire.
I have a few pieces of firewood in my bin too.
Kent (Anderson ) Bailey

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Wood Creations by Kent A. Bailey
EXCELLENCE IN SCULPTURE, CARVING, LUTHIER, ARCHITECTURAL MILLWORK AND DESIGN

http://www.kabart.com

I have to admit that it was mostly my fault. I should have asked some more questions before buying it. The guy was polite and honest, and he did offer a partial refund, so I'm not gonna complain too much. But yeah, some of those sellers of ultra-figured AAAAA+ mastergrade Brazilian Rosewood are ignorant at best.

Kent, you sure are right about that. I almost bought a piece of Norway spruce from the US once

By the way, what is honeycomb?

Nowadays I stick with the fine folks on the OLF and have no problems...I only wish I had bigger tonewood orders!

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http://www.presnallguitars.com

So far, I have had good luck -- but I generally look for boring stuff on Ebay... stuff with nice straight grain, etc...

I have ended up with the opposite problem, though... I have a QS cherry set that is just off-quarter enough to not show any rays... but so uniform it is boring. It has a really nice tap... but absolutely no character.

I have noticed that there are a whole lot of folks out there selling "Guitar sets". Some seem to know what makes a good Guitar set.. Others just don't.

As you said, wild burl is trouble.... especially with included bark... Spalted wood that crossed over into Rotten... Curly stuff that twists into knots.... Stuff that runs completely out within 5" (Wow, that sure was a wide log... that you cut completely across at a 45* angle...)

The other flavor of trouble are the guys who don't know why guitar sets are the size they are.... so they sell a "D-size guitar set" that has a D-size back and a 4 1/8" wide Sides... Sure buddy, those "Sides" look beautiful and perfectly quartersawn.... but I can't make anything larger than a Parlor out of it....

In the end, Caveat Emptor! If the Description was Correct and the pics were accurate -- you knew what you were buying.

Thanks

John

I have bought a few things on ebay and it's a crap shoot. Though I got a nice piece of padauk recently for an electric their. In reality you are not getting a deal on ebay compared to a regular wood dealer. Many ebay wood venders slap the title luthier on their product and demand a higher price for basic lumberyard wood. I have seen some vendors market neck blanks for strats or telecaster that are far undersized for those builds. Read the descriptions well and ask if the item shown is what your getting since many use there stock photos over and over...Mike

Superlatives are the norm on eBay, grading is essentially meaningless.
I am always amazed by the prices obtained for what essentially is unusable crap, it only means that the bidders do not know what they're bidding on. The Braz is see on eBay is usually subpar stuff, but it rarely sells above $500, and often way below that.

I think it's better for a beginner to order from an established vendor, rather than trying to save money and buy cheap on eBay. It's like saving pennies while losing dollars.
Those established vendors have been in the business a long time, know their wood and often have "opportunity" sets for killer prices.

There are quite a few sponsors here who have stores on eBay: RCTonewood, BluesCreek, Hibdon. I've never been disappointed and have been able to save quite a bit of $$$ by buying attractive large sets with defects to build small guitars, for example.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

As a seller on Ebay and I do sell some wood there , I am often floored at the price they get for "figured" that is nothing more than log run. Most people that buy on ebay figure if it say tonewood ,it will make a guitar. Be educated and know what you are buying .

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I "Vote" with my money... Yep... there is some ugly wood out there... Log run backs and sides and #3 (B) grade and worse tops being sold as AA or AAA....

In my mind, if the pix are accurate and the description is correct... they can ask whatever they want. If they start bidding at $0.01 -- then it is the bidder's fault for foolishly paying exorbitant prices. Many start high, but never get their asking price, or the goods sit on Ebay for months and months and months with no takers.

I have a bunch of #3 grade tops I bought from a reputable supplier for around $6.50 each... Some are great and were downgraded for Wide grain, racing stripes, etc.... Some have sap pockets all over the place or were cut at nearly 45* off-quarter, knot shadow, etc.... but I have seen these same sort of tops re-sold on Ebay for much higher prices...

I can just imagine the joy and surprise when someone gets their $40.00 "AAA" top buying off a fuzzy pic and finds that while the grain was narrow and uniform.... it was cut 45* off quarter and shows some knot shadow in an extremely visible place....

There are a couple folks on Ebay selling "Cedar Billets" -- I have asked for end-grain pix.... no response. That fellow won't be getting my money!

Thanks

John

I have bought a fair amount of wood from eBay and have mostly done quite well. I usually browse the "lumber" rather than the "luthier" category looking for pieces that will need resawing- necks, LP tops, fingerboards, etc. I did get a billet of HRW that I was able to saw into 3 jumbo sets for quite cheap. I rarely buy tops (adi spruce from Ted Davis' estate excluded). There is a guy operating out of Flordia (Sergiowood-I think) that was selling Hondo really cheaply- I brought a bunch and all of it was good.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

Thats the secret. browsing lumber instead of neck blank or body black.

I am with you on this. Only buy from OLFers and sponsors of this site. Members have their e-reputation to maintain and well, it goes without saying with regards to sponsors. In all my dealings with sponsors and members, I have never been dissapointed. Deep in wood debt yes, but dissapointed, no.

Cheers,

Mike (aka Wood Junkie)

Sondre, I just noticed your avatar. Who in the world acutally plays like that??!! Is that real or photoshop? I am thinking photoshop.

Mike

Mike, that's actually from an animation in a Frank Zappa video . Really weird and hilarious, take a look. The fun starts 3 minutes in. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kf8TM4CIk5g

Honeycomb is where the wood was dried too fast or hot in a kiln.It causes crack voids within the board.( That wood shouldn't be sold at all!)

On the subject of tonewood...

I needed a set of curly koa thickness sanded, so I took it to a local hardwood dealer. I'd gotten this koa for what I thought was a steal, but the guys at the hardwood dealer couldn't believe how much I'd paid for it. Basically, they mocked me.

I think it's time to invest in a bandsaw that can do some re-sawing.

Yes, sorry Sondre, didn't see your question. As Mark said, it's an internal defect. There is often no sign of a problem on the board surface, but once you cut into the board and find the labyrinth of voids, you realize you have some expensive firewood. If the wood is valuable (and if you can't get your money back), you may get pieces big enough for butt grafts, headstock overlays, rosette pieces, or maybe just wooden earrings to keep the boss happy. It really is a heartbreaking kiln defect, because the wood looks so good until you cut into it.

Dennis

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

It sounds to me like they were trying to take you down a notch. Go back and ask them to order you quartered full-premium curl boards, 8" minimum, and that you would like to cherry-pick the stack when it comes in, and only buy what you like. Tell them you are dead serious and see what kind of price they come up with.
Better yet, bring them some cocobolo to surface and look puzzled when they complain about replacing their expensive belts......

If you are serious about lutherie, having the capability to resaw is really a plus.

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

And get a thickness sander too. Saw one for sale in the Classifieds.

Also, check and see if your community has a open shop. Not easy to find, but I found one on a military base where I live. All I had to do was take a one day orientation course and I had use of the shop.

Mike