Official Luthiers Forum!

I wonder if anyone has experience playing a guitar with these.
Are they viable or a menace?..I think they look cool but have never used them

It would be for a classical or flaminco guitar, lutes baroque guitars. On a cello, they work just fine. Ebony is NOT the wood of choice, Plumwood and Pearwood are conisdered better, more stable choices.

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

On a steel string the 1:1 ratio will be difficult, if not impossible to tune with any accuracy.
You may want to ask http://www.pegheds.com/ if their tuners can work with the tension on steel strings. They're 4:1, like banjo tuners.

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Laurent Brondel
West Paris, Maine - USA
http://www.laurentbrondel.com/

wow never seen those before...This will be a classical so tension is less of a problem

Go to
http://www.lessonsinlutherie.com

Here you can get all the info on "Pegheds"

I have used them for 3 years and they are great !!!!
Also they have steel string sets now !!!!!

Mike

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Mike Collins

I've played a lot of instruments with peg tuners, all of my lutes of course and a fair number of early guitars, I must admit for nylon strings (or gut) I rather like them. Once you get used to tuning, using them, it is a very quick and simple matter of bringing strings to pitch.

If I'm reparing an early instrument then I have to replace like for like, but I have made pegs from a number of different woods, including ebony for violins and guitar. But, for lutes I usually make them from rosewood, pear, plum, or boxwood. Most recently I made a lute set of boxwood. Here's a couple of pictures of some box pegs (excuse the blue bandages!)

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I have a couple of old banjos and an old banjo uke with these tuners. If i wasn't concerned with ruining an old instrument by altering it i would have replaced these with something modern a long time ago, They stink. They are very difficult to tune with. My opinion is you will regret using these. Thats unless you like self tourture.

Mike thanks for the link. I didn't know anyone was making a traditional looking machine tuner. Maybe i can replace my peg tuners after all...Mike

Nobody would buy an instrument with worn out machines and simply soldier on with them. And I have not heard anybody say that machine tuners are a bad idea just because the machines on their instrument wore out. But I have seen a lot of people using pegs that were improprely fitted or that should have been replaced long before who complain about them. Taper pegs do require a bit more maintainance than gear tuners, and they are not as easy to install properly, but they work well enough when done right, and offer at least one real advantage over most machines.

Wood shrinks much less along the grain than across it, so the holes tend to go out of round. This would not be a problem if the pegs stayed round, but they, too tend to shrink to an oval shape over time. The combination of an oval peg in an oval hole means that there will be positions where the peg won't hold properly.

You can round up both the pegs and the holes, but that means that the pegs will be seated more deeply. When this gets to be a problem the solution is to 'bush' the holes. The recent development of 'spiral bushings' has been a real help here: they are eaiser to do than the old solid type, stay round better, reinforce the holes, and require the removal of far less wood. Some makers, such as my friend Aaron Green, bush the holes when they make the instrument, so things stay in good shape longer to begin with.

Although the shaft of the peg does turn once for every turn of the head, that doesn't exactly mean that there is no mechanical advantage. The head is usually three or more times as wide as the shaft, so there is that much leverage. Again, I've seen too many old fiddles with the pegs almost worn through the heads, so that the shaft is effecively much fatter than it should be. This requires more force to turn, and takes up too much string per turn, so of course it's a problem. But it's not an inherent issue with the pegs: they're worn out.

Many tropical woods, such as ebony and rosewood, have a certain amount of silica in them, and tend to wear the holes out faster than woods like boxwood and pearwood. This extra wear does help keep the holes round, though.

Pegs also need a certain amount of lubrication. Dry friction tends to either stick tight or slip, so it's hard to tune smoothly with dry pegs. 'Peg dope' contains both a lubricant and some abrasive, so that the pegs will move smoothly and still stick when you want them to. I've made peg dope out of beeswax and a little pumice, and some people swear by 'Lava' soap, which also has pumice in it.

The big advantage of pegs is their light weight. That's why you'll never see a serious violinist using right-angle gear tuners on their instrument, although they are available. That much added weight messes up the balance, and even the sound, of a violin. Flamencos tend to like pegs for the same reason.

I have used the Peghed tuners, and they work well. They don't weigh much, if any, more than wood pegs, and don't require modifications to the head of a violin. They are pricey, though.

Hmmm, I forgot about the tools. Im just looking into them, but you need a GOOD reamer, and maybe a good peg-shaver, although you could try to make one yourself. The best German ones run about $200.00, + the reamer. You can buy some types of pegs, you can get some pretty cheap, or you can try turning your own, and then you need a mini-lathe.

As usual, nothing is easy...

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

Thank you Al.

I've repaired and restored instruments of over 300 years old with peg tuners, one or two with original ivory pegs, but in the main with either fruitwood, box or ebony pegs. The fruitwood and box are definitely the most stable and are usually fine with just a light shaving, again fruitwood pegboxes tend to distort least. One 1764 Brunner archlute I completely restored ended up with all of its original pegs still being used with just minor pegshaving and pegbox reaming. By the way I still have yet to find a better reamer than the Stew Mac one, but a light touch is needed with all reamers. If it is necessary to bush a peg box I use tapered bushes.

Making pegs is not a difficult process, a simple turning and sanding job using a model makers lathe, I've made several hundred over the years and like any job gets easier the more times you do it. (I even managed with one hand on the last lot!)

To make pegs last longer and induce less wear it's important to release tension on the peg when adjusting it by very slightly moving it out, then just pressing back in when tuned, it's a thing you get a feel for.

As I said when you get used to them peg tuners are a joy to use. The geared versions are not well thought of on this side of the pond at all.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

I like pegs too (gut or nylon only) and I think the aesthetic of a "peg" head on a guitar is unsurpassed.
I used to make my own when I had access to a lovely South Bend metal lathe at work and made versions in rosewood and even one replacement Martin type in ivory.

The pegs that I've been using recently have also been on historic guitar replicas or for the restoration of early guitars. I've been working with a luthier in England to make these to the original specs which have been taken from examples of pegs found on Torres and Martin guitars. The materials have included ebony, rosewood and most recently Bone.

Here are some Bone replica pegs on an a C. 1850 Martin guitar.



Ebony pegs (with bone "caps") on a Torres replica.



Ebony Martin style pegs on a C. 1840 martin and Coupa.



The peghead on the Martin and Coupa is also a restoration and the peg holes were bushed with rosewood plugs as on the originals. I've found that in some cases very little or no peg dope is required to make these work well. The most recent bone pegs, perhaps due to the residual oil in the bone worked perfectly with nothing added.
Beware of using too much peg dope as this will usually cause the pegs to slip.

I have yet to find a peg shaper I like. When I make pegs I turn the shaft first, and make it to fit the hole. If I need to fit a peg I use a file and sandpaper. It takes a bit of time, but you can get them to fit perfectly, even in holes that are not correctly tapered.