Official Luthiers Forum!

I tried searching forum topics. I imagine the subject has been beat to death. But I ama newbie and need you guys to help me spend my money
I have a $90 Bandsaw that if it cuts a straight line its an accident. I want to be able to cut logs down to backs and sides. Obviously with a few years between steps.
I am looking at;
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/d ... umber=3179
or from Rockler
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=21614
or from Grizzly
http://grizzly.amazonwebstore.com/Grizz ... E34CPW.htm

There is a used industrial machine company fairly close. I am thinking that spending the extra dough for new would maybe be a good idea.
Any help would be appriciated. BTW I am selling a Handmade Yamaha Compass North to foot the bill. If any of you happen to have a spare bandsaw and an itch for a north, drop me a line

My personal opinion is that the Jet you point to on the Rockler page is underpowered for what you want to do. Look more at the 3 HP version.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I agree with Jim. If you are planning to rip logs into billets, I would look for 3hp or greater. If you are planning on resawing from billets only, you can get away with less hp. Incidently, who is the used equip dealer in SW Pa? Just curious sice that is where I am from.

Chuck

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I saw this giant bandsaw at the plywood supplier that I visited a few days back. The thing occupies a whole (rather large) shed to the side of the factory and it had a 3" (I am not kidding) blade. When they turn it on it does not come up to speed immediately, rather it takes a full 5 minutes before it's ready to cut, because it just comes to speed slowly. It cuts very rough however, the cut looks a lot more like a roughsawn lumber (more like chainsaw cuts). Now if you are looking to saw logs into billets you probably want something like this. Otherwise you might look into a chainsaw mill or something then use a normal bandsaw once you milled your lumber to billet size. It might not be too much trouble to just take the stuff to a lumber mill and ask them to mill it for you.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I used to have a MiniMax MM16 that would do what you want. I had to sell it when I moved, but it was a monster, with tons of power. You ought to check them out. Also check out Laguna. Lots of people love their machines too. Both are expensive, they they are quality machines that will last a long long long long time.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

95% of my work will be cutting Billets or less. I have a guy with a wood mizer that can cut the big stuff. I just don't want to under buy. I have had too many conversations with Luthiers that have done 3 upgrades to get what they needed in the first place.
I'd really like to stay under $1500 if I can.
Export If you ever want to have me over to let me pick your brain I'll bring the coffee
The fella with the used stuff is in Beaver Pa.Here is one of his ads from eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 0360151124

John, Glad you are back in the game. How are feeling? The MM16 looks hot but too much dough till become a rich Luthier

Howdy John,

It will be difficult to get a good bandsaw for resawing logs that is under $1500 unless you can find a used one or maybe a scratch & dent. I shopped for quite some time before buying my Grizzly 17" Ultimate Bandsaw. FWW did a review on the larger bandsaws a couple of years or so ago and the Laguna was rated highest overall but you would have to hock your family to get one if you're just starting out. I considered the Laguna, and strongly considered the Mini Max but the Mini Max at the time was having issues with their motors (which I believe they've resolved since).

The Grizzly had the best rating regarding table deflection (stiffness) and the only thing that kept it from rating as best overall value was the supposed difficulty in changing the blade which I've not found to be a problem at all. I love it's power and the accuracy of my cuts. I've been able to precisely cut veneers so thin I can see through them. Since the FWW review they even made other upgrades (i.e. the Resaw fence being adjustable to compensate for bade drift) I got the newer version that includes the improvements. At $2350 + $175 freight (at the time) and it's 220V 5 HP motor, I chose it. I also had my choice influenced (though not completely) by reviews of owners, on the machines and customer service ratings. Everything mechanical can break and for me, customer service is important because lost machine time is lost $$.

For any of these sizeable units you'll need about 3 men and a boy to help you move them around unless you get an optional wheel base to mount them on. The 220V version will save you on electricity usage. If you have a smaller bandsaw it's a good idea to keep it for smaller tasks if space is not an issue. I kept my 14" Jet with the 6" riser block for just that purpose.

Also, for a resaw blade, I use the Highland Woodworking Wood Slicer (about $40 & high reviews on FWW). They are affordable and the thinnest kerf you'll get anywhere for the price. I have loads of billets I am resawing and it slices even the Gabon Ebony and Cocobolo like they're made of butter. Keeps cuting billet after billet and never a "dull" moment

One thing that I took into consideration, is I only want to buy 1 large bandsaw. In my considerations, I eliminated the JET and other lower cost units (although you might like the Rikon) because they all lacked in the features I personally needed for them to be acceptable over the long haul. Each one of us has our own needs in equipment so take your time, use the internet and research them all thoroughly. Check woodworking forums and see what owners have to say about their machines. Consider the long term and potential long term resale value. The Best of the Best in my opinion, Laguna, with Mini Max running a close second followed by BridgePort and Grizzly (each tied for 3rd in my thinking). The Laguna I feel is way over priced but is a fine machine and it was certainly one of my considerations. And I don't like the Ceramic Guides because they produce sparks. Sparks as you may know don't get along well with wood dust and dust collection systems. They can either burn or go boom and burn. Not my idea of fun. Just couldn't justify the extra cost and I've been perfectly happy with the Grizzly. This was a bit long winded I know but I hope it helps

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

I also purchased a 17" Grizzly bandsaw (for about $1200) and agree with all of Hodge's comments - . It's reliable, well constructed, and I've used it to resaw mahogany and black walnut (as well as countless other tasks) Frankly I don't have any negatives on the saw. I don't think you'll have any regrets with the Grizzly.

I didn't even know Harbor Freight sold that type of Band Saw, but I think I would be very hesitant to go with the Harbor Freight.

I could be wrong on this because I've never even seen this Band Saw at Harbor Freight, but just from seeing other high end tools that they sell, you are usually better off spending very little extra going with a trusted brand.

I bought their 14" band saw and it was a major piece of junk. Luckily I got it on a really good sale Plus I saved 20% on top of that. When I finally sold it for $150 I was only out like $50. But I would have preferred to never have wasted that money.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I would look at the jet or grizzly. I own a jet 10/20 drum sander and a jet jointer/planer combo and the quality and the power is great. I have found most power tools and most stuff in general the harbor freight sells to be junk. My mechanic buddy of mine bought a metal working mill and he needed to take the table and a few other pieces to a machine shop to have them trued. I find that very ironic.The saying you get what you pay for still stands....Mike

Don't forget that you can pick up a jet or a grizzly on ebay with at least 14% cashback and in grizzly's case, free shipping.

Mike

I'm feeling incredibly sore. My broken ribs still hurt like crazy, and my incision in my side, which cut through my Lat muscle, is really sore too. I've got pleurisy on my left lung. But all that said I'm feeling much better than a couple weeks ago. Everyday is a tiny bit better.

Yeah the MM16 is a beast. It was only like $2300 when I bought mine, and I sold it a few years later for $2000. Not too shabby. It cut through anything like butter. I wasn't a huge fan of euro guides though.

As a voice of dissent I had a grizzly bandsaw about 8 years ago and it was horrible for cutting anything thicker than 2-3". I might have got a bad one, and the quality sounds like it's better now, but I, personally, would never buy a grizzly bandsaw again I don't think.

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John Mayes
http://www.mayesluthier.com

Since we are chatting,
One thing I might add. In my experience almost every bandsaw be it a cheep one or a expensive one will need to be tweaked, coaxed, cajoled into performing. Some people call this tuning. Really even the Olivers, Yates and Tannewitzes of the world need to be tuned and maintained.
Very few work perfectly right out of the box. Buy the best quality you can and expect to have to tune it.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Hey John M,

I'm glad to see you're doing better in the healing department. We'll keep praying for
a full recovery for you!

The older versions of the Grizzly's did have a couple of problems. The one I have however
has had absolutely no problems. I do a lot of resawing and have resawn a lot of thick wood
effortlessly. The other day I resawed a Cocobolo Billet that was 12" thick and cut it into backs
with no problem or difficulty. As Link said, they all need good setup and adjustments on a regular
basis. Of course the 220V 5HP motor doesn't hurt. If this motor ever cooks, I'll replace it with
a Baldor.

The Mini Max was certainly one I considered, but since Resawing is not my primary operation, I
got the Grizzly. If I was just a Sawyer, I'd likely go with the Laguna and switch out the ceramic guides
to bearing guides. But as for me and my house, we will build guitars.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

I have that 19" Grizzly. I got it from their Ebay store with the $200 cashback. If you are going to be cutting up logs, I'd go with the one that has the rack/pinion table tilt. It has a cast iron trunnion and the extra mounting point of the tilt mechanism will help support the table. It's about $100 more though. The power is excellent, and the saw has performed flawlessley for me. I love my band saw.

Darrin

Yes, as Darrin said the R&P table is awesome! That's why I chose the 17" Ultimate 220V 5 HP version.
That table doesn't flex! and the ease and precision of adjusting it is a breeze. I wouldn't trade
it for anything now that i have it. And, I've had awesome co-operation from the Customer Service.
When the saw was delivered, the trunnion was busted and I didn't notice until 3 weeks later. I had to store
the saw in my garage until I had the shop prepared to receive it. When I was setting up the saw I noticed
the broken trunnion and knowing that it had been 3 + weeks by that time, I thought getting it dealt with
would be a pain. When I called Customer Service, they were gracious and kind. Communicated well, and
kept me informed of progress. They didn't have the trunnion in stock. As we conversed they decided to
take one off of a new machine, and sent it to me 2nd day air. No hassles, no problems! That's my kind
of service. And with the ultra thin kerf Wood Slicer resaw blade, the hardest and thickest of wood turns
to butter For the price and for what I need it to do, I'm a happy camper

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

If you get the 18" or larger you can run a carbide blade on it. Carbides can be sharpened up to 4 times. The cost of sharpening is about the same as a new bi-metal blade. If you get 3 sharpenings out of it your costs are comparable.
Carbides take a wider kerf but cut cleaner so the net result is generaly the same. You can feed much faster which is very nice. They last forever. And finally carbide blades are more forgiving of less than perfect set up. In other words you could get a decent cut off of the same set up where you would have trouble with a conventional blade.
One caveat though. In the past some of the carbide blades were breaking in the smaller sizes. 18" by most accounts is the smallest diameter that will reliably run a carbide. If one does break you are out of luck. No re-welding and no returns. Lenox has addressed the problem but I don't want to recommend them without a bit of a disclaimer.
I think they are really great but know that 18" is at the lower end of the working range. BTW the reason is that the blade has to bend over a smaller radius. It fatigues the metal more than a larger radius wheel.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

No disagreement on my part about the carbide blade Link

I agree that it would be the best if you're doing a lot of resawing indeed. Laguna's Resaw King
blade is also made for the 17" and has a fairly thin kerf as carbide blades go. I believe Lenox
has one too that's comprable at a little better price. I typically buy in billets, cants, and wedges
to resaw for my own needs, thus far the Wood Slicer has done well enough for me. One day I do plan
on sawing up all of my stock and when I do, I plan to order the Resaw King. The 17" Ultimate
will handle up to a 1-1/4" blade effortlessly. Up till now, within my shop's budget, the Wood Slicer
has served me well. I bought 3 of them at one time about 1-1/2 years ago and up till now have been using
the 1st blade regularly. Gonna have to change it soon though because I was sawing up a Cedar log
the other day and I was unaware that it had a couple of nails in it. The WS made shortwork
of the nails but the nails made shortwork of it as well. I know a carbide tipped blade could likely have survived
such a hit.

Hmmmm Now, you've got me thinking that I may as well stop being such a tight wad and get the Resaw King.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

This is a good discussion. John, this issue with Grizzly Bandsaws has been addressed. The new ones almost always get rave reviews (considering their cost!). Also, remember, John Hall is also a big fan. The reason I went with the Jet 18" was because the location was nearby (I could go pick it up). I love it! How I ever did anything without a bandsaw now amazes me. I also believe they know there are issues with their motors. Fine when they work, but tendency to die is above average. I have spoken with many folks who say Grizzly just shipped them another one. The motor issue would not scare me in the least.

If the tool you want from Grizzly is not on the website, they will gladly put one up. Don't feel that your selection is limited there. I guess what I am syaing is for the kind of work we do in this activity, Grizzly has fine tools for the job. Once you make it big, buy all the top end stuff if you want. Until then, take advantage of the fact that Grizzly lets almost anyone of modest means or better get a start in having a nice shop.

Mike

Bill,
I doubt the carbide blade would stand up to the nails. The carbide is hard enough but the nail would most likely strip a few teeth off. I think it would ruin the blade and that would be $$$ sad indeed. If I have any doubts I use one of my old bi-metal blades. (Like when I cut up shop scrap for fire wood or saw a piece of firewood to big for my stove ) You make a good point really, it would be better to use a less expensive blade if there is a chance or running into something other than wood !
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Hey Link,

In that case, I'm sooooooooo glad it was a $39 Wood Slicer instead of a $279 Resaw King

I have some carbide tipped blades for my table saw that are rated to withstand a nail or two although
I go out of my way not to hit any. I'm not too bummed about the WS blade because of the fairly low cost.
It has served me well through several billets of exotics over the past year. The performance of this blade in
it's cost range has been phenomenal.

I have about a dozen black walnut logs avg size about 24" up to 36" in diameter and about 11' long that my
father in-law gave me off his farm in NE Kansas. Until I got the Grizzly I couldn't even consider resawing them because
my little 14" JET just doesn't have the kahones to do the job. It had a tough time resawing 3" Cherry. I've been wanting
to block them up and resaw them for the past 3 years but I don't have a metal detector yet to check for nails and fence
staples.

With trees that size off a 1000 acre farm, it is highly possible there's metal in one or two. Blade disasters waiting to
happen . I suppose Woodcraft's Timberwolf blades would be good for that task. They are such a reasonable
cost that I can afford to loose one or so in making billets.

Could be that there's no metal in them at all but my father in-law said it would be wise to get the detector and check
them out. Maybe the cost of a detector would be better than the cost of say, 3 blades?

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

To John Mayes; Hang tough, wow what you've been through!

Well I think the winner is the Grizzly 19"
http://cgi.ebay.com/Grizzly-19%22-Heavy ... dZViewItem
I have to wait a few more weeks to order it. eBay says free shipping. I don't think $1395 shipped is bad. And it is so much more saw for the dough than the stuff at Rockler. Which is a bummer, because I can drive there.
Thanks to all and all the great info!

Looks like that'll be a great deal for you John. Congrads

I'd pay the other 30 bucks or so for tailgate delivery. The driver won't
(or at least is not supposed to) help you to unload. His job would be to
get it to the tail of the truck. Make sure you have two or three strong
individuals to help.

I've got forks for my tractor so I just took the bucket off and added the forks.

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Bill Hodge


One does not simply, own enough guitars!

Fortunatly It's a straight shot with my handtruck. I have decided to keep the saw on a wheelbase behind a background in my photo studio.
Should I get the Carbide blade from Grizzly also? Is there a learning curve on Carbide blades also?