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I have seen three piece backs but never a four. Do you have to have a reinforcing strip on every stem? Does all this extra wood have a negative affect? Are the pieces wedge shaped so they fit in the upper bout? If anyone has a good example they could post that would be great. I am starting work on a Black Locust OM and am trying to figure out what to do for the back maybe a center strip of Ambrosia or other figured Maple. I have nice sides cut but still trying to come up with wood for the back. Man that stuff is hard to cut! I have a Trimaster but I still had to go very slow. Best- Bill the Greenman.

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Mistakes are mandatory-learning from them is optional. http://www.opensourceluthiersupply.com

Greenman,
You don't need the center seam strip on all four joins. If you are joining them like 4 boards glued together, like taking 4 2x4 and clamping together, then you don't need anything except a really good joint. You can still add a decorative strip down the center, but you will have to inlay it, or rip the 4 piece join down the center on your tablesaw and add a decorative strip between these pieces. Does that make sense?

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Tracy
http://www.luthiersuppliers.com

Hi Bill,

I asked myself that same question, and with typical back bracing, the guitar back will probably hold together just fine with no cross-grain reinforcement strips. However, I saw it as insurance, and the Sitka strips I used didn't add but a few grams of weight to the guitar, so I decided to add them.

This is a 4-piece back (sort of disguised as a 3-piece) where the center wedge is itself 2 bookmatched pieces:

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Dennis Leahy
Duluth, MN, USA
7th Sense Multimedia

Dennis, bookmatching the centre is a nice look.

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David White, Toronto

"All my favourite singers can't sing."

I only use a center seam reinforcement, mostly for the traditional "look". This is a four piece back with only the center seam reinforced. I used west system epoxy to join the coco.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Check out Sobell in the UK, he is frequently making 6 piece backs from Brazilian 'scantlings' - dont believe he has 5 reinforcment strips and the way he manages to selct the pieces to match is great. Never played one, but he has a VERY fine reputation.

I regularly make four piece backs with my resawn Imbuia floorboards. I like the insurance of having the cross grained strips. What I typically do is use the same material of the top for the center strip and then use the same material from the back for the other two reinforcement strips. Using the same material sanded and scraped out really fine tends to hide it if you are after any traditional look on the inside of the guitar.

Frank,

Stefan does use reinforcement strips on his scantling guitars as this picture from his website shows:



He also does multi-piece scantling sides - amazing craftsman.

When I do multi-piece backs I only use a central decorative strip, figuring that if the joints are perfect, then the back bracing will do the rest. So far so good.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave, is that reinforcement strips or sapwood?

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

…of course, my coco center seams have never opened up, but if they should (and as I say, this would be strictly rhetorically speaking in my case) and I would like to add the cross grain reinforcements as extra insurance of the repaired crack after the fact, it is a lot more difficult to do when the box is closed. At least as neatly as I'd like. Just saying.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

Not Dave here, but it is cross grain reinforcement. You can see it a little bit more clearly in other pictures on his website, which i visit often for inspiration.

If Stefan does it, it must be ok!

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

ah yes ! The picture on his site shows it sharper..

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

I hear ya Arnt, I really do, and I respect your opinion...
I guess its just one of those things where there really is no right or wrong way.
Look at Larrivee guitars for instance, you wont find even a center reinforcement strip.
And I seem to recall reading somewhere, maybe in a GAL mag or Redbook that he uses CA for his joint.
I could be wrong about this though..

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Thanks for that, did not do my homework

Have you ever played one? They had one for sale second hand recently in the Acoustic centre in Brighton, was going to go done and try, but it was already sold....

They certainly look stunning and if they are good enough for Martin Simpson!

Martin lived in ithaca, my home town for a bunch of years, and played all over with my father and a bunch of other local musicians, it was a great time. I was lucky enough to be around him a bunch and hear him play in informal settings, he unquestionably "has it".

It was also nice being around his fancy guitars, a friend described the sound of his sobell as being like "lazer beams going straight through your brain at a million miles per hour". Last i checked, Martin was using a .014" or .015" for his high E, going down to god knows how heavy on the bass, with pretty high action. His guitars would cause most of us to instantly spout blood from our fingertips, but he makes it look completely effortless.

I have always loved sobell guitars, they look nice in pictures, but they are REALLY nice in person.

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

Thanks for that great insight... I have sen him play live last year hear in the UK and without doubt an incredible talent and a real joy to hear. Those details of the string guages made my fingers curl up!

Frank,

I attended Martin Simpson Workshops for a number of years at the turn of last century and the start of this one (sounds great doesn't it ) and have played about 15-20 different Sobells - my guitar buddy Bill has one that I've played and heard a lot over a number of years. Martin used to use D'Addario EJ17's (13-56) with the 0.013" replaced by a 0.015" as he needed this to support the slide he used a lot. This was nearly always in dropped tunings. He used to have a high action but I gather he has lowered it now based on Stefan's new slimmer necks and may be using lighter strings too. He's as close to the perfect guitar player as you will get.

Sorry for the slight thread hijack.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

You lucky .... sounds a fantastic opportunity and am green with envy!

Did you play any with the multipiece backs (sorry to go back on topic)? and how would you say they influenced tone? (sorry for the tough question!)

Yes - sounded just like his other Braz Rosewood b/s guitars.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Thanks guys that was very helpful. I was thinking of doing something like Dennis did with a bookmatched center strip of Ambrosia maple. I am trying to pick up on the green of the locust. I saw a place in Spain that was offering three piece backs and a piece of the center strip was to be used for the headstock veneer. I thought that would be a nice touch. Locust is such a plain wood I was looking for a way to jazz it up a little. I am continuing to try to hunt down sources for Black Locust. It grows all over the place around here but nobody seems to saw it up. Will keep you posted on my process and quest for Black Locust.

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One side note I built a guitar at Dave Nichol's class and he used CA glue for the back stem. He put on the glue and I went over the glue with a paper towel that acted like the accellorator. The towel actually got hot. Then the center strip is glued on with regular glue and put on in a vacuum clamp bag.

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I've never noticed that before and I go out of my way to check out their stuff whenever I'm in the shop or in a music store that carry their guitars.. I had to check his website after I saw that photo. All the photos clearly show no backstrip.

I'm gonna email them and ask them why they don't do it. Sure makes putting a label in there easier

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