Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm sure by now most everyone here has seen my annoying posts asking questions about nearly everything involved to build a guitar. You probably have also read where I want a guitar for my daughters to learn to play on.

I just read a post over on fretsnet where a guy started the hobby by picking up an old Kay at a pawn shop, removing the back, removing the old bracing and adding Martin style X bracing, installing a new back, reshaping the neck, and refinishing the guitar. He was very happy with the result and he said it is still one of his best payers.

This reminded me of the old Kay guitar my dad had when I was a kid. Unfortunately, that guitar is long gone......but then I remembered the guitar I learned to play on is still sitting at my mom and dad's house. This guitar has quite a history in our family. I was the last one to learn to play on it, before that my cousin learned to play on it, not exactly sure the history between my cousin and my dad, but my dad learned to play on that guitar, and all his brothers learned to play on that guitar back before World War II.

I'm not sure what brand the guitar is, maybe an old Harmony or something like that. Anyhow, it is a small body guitar and the perfect size for my daughters. If I remember correctly, either the top or the back is split somewhere but I can't remember which. It hasn't had strings on it in over 25 years. Best I remember the neck was a little wide but I guess it could be reshaped for the girls. Our family bought the guitar used so I'm not sure the age but as I mentioned above, my uncles were playing this guitar prior to being drafted in Would War II.

This idea had never crossed my mind prior to reading that post. I'm curious what you guys think......what are my chances of successfully rebuilding this old guitar as my first project? More difficult than building a kit? More difficult than building from scratch? Easier than building a kit?

I must admit that I don't want to permanently harm this guitar where it couldn't be rebuilt as I could always wait and work on it later when I have more experience. However, if I rebuild it now, the guitar would have a purpose and continue it's legacy of teaching family members to play. If I build the girls another guitar to learn on, then it would mostly be rebuilding for the sake of preserving the guitar which I may or may not get around to doing.

I would appreciate your thoughts. FYI a little background: I have woodworing experience building furniture etc. and I have an engineering background if that helps.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

I think its a good way to start, but on a first there are NO guarantees!!

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

I think it sounds like an excellent idea. First, though, I would assess the guitar's value. If it happens to be something that's worth a significant amount of money, then you'd want to be thinking in terms of an expert restoration, whether you wait and take that on yourself when you've developed the skills, or pay a pro to do it. On the other hand, if it doesn't have monetary value, but has a lot of value to you as an artifact of your family history, then you might decide to just leave it alone and hang it on a wall. But if you feel that the best way to honor its history in your family is to put it back into use, even if it involves replacing parts and altering it significantly, then I think it would be an excellent learning project and a very satisfying thing to do. If you take it slow, researching and thinking through each step, you should be able to tackle it, and you'd gain a great understanding of guitars in the process.

When I was first thinking about getting into guitar building, I asked a great local luthier here in Ithaca, Eric Aceto*, what he would suggest I do to begin my learning process. Without hesitation, he said, "Take a guitar apart and put it back together." I didn't take his advice, but in retrospect, I think it was excellent advice, and it would have served me really well if I had done just that at that time.

*Eric is an exceptionally talented, fantastic instrument maker. Check out his web site - http://www.ithacastring.com/.
He's also an amazing musician.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

One of the many things that I learned from Rick Turner and his posts is that we all would benefit from having some repair mules to learn with/on. Be it neck resets, refrets, fixing cracks, anything that we might someday need to have some expertise with.

Rebuilding an old guitar, if it will hold your interest, is a good thing!

I think I'm safe in saying that this particular guitar isn't worth anything.......except the sentimental value. I will be able to check it out this coming weekend when I visit my parents. I can't even say for sure it's solid wood. Never had a great sound or anything like that.

I like the idea of rebuilding this old guitar because 1) it would be a nice size for my daughters to learn to play on and 2) I learned to play on this guitar. With that said, I must be realistic.....it was never a high quality guitar. I doubt it's worth saving on it's own merits. I would need to do an honest evaluation and decide what it needs and what parts/wood I'm willing to replace and still call it the old guitar.

After thinking about it, if I can't reuse the neck and sides then I'll leave it as is. Best I remember, I will need to resurface the fretboard. I know it needs new tuners. I guess the big call is if the back and sides are decent and reusable. If I can't make it sound decent and play nice and easy, it sort of defeats the purpose of a beginner guitar for my daughters.

Anyone ever converted a floating bridge guitar to a fixed bridge? I can't recall if it has a fixed bridge or a floating bridge. I assume if the bridge does indeed float on this guitar that I would have to either rebrace the top or replace the top to convert to a fixed bridge. I doubt I will rebuild it if it means leaving it as a floating bridge guitar.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

My first foray into guitar building was exactly what you describe. It was on the recommendation of Charles Fox who gave a talk at the Montreal Guitar Show. He suggested getting an old guitar and working on it. I got an old Framus guitar for $30. I stripped the finish, reset the neck, removed the top which was plywood and replaced it with a solid Cedar top, rebound it with Rosewood, put a headstock veneer on, rebraced it, and refinished it.

In the process I found out that yes, for sure, I wanted to build guitars. And I started to accumulate tools and clamps, clamps, clamps (you can never have too many clamps).

That $30 guitar probably ened up costing hundreds of dollars by the time I was done.

The guitar came out quite nicely. Not a great guitar but lots of mojo. I play it all the time.

Now, about a year later, I'm about to start my 3rd from scratch.

So, yes, I think it's a great way to start.

Neil

neoguard,

You said you replaced the top on the guitar you restored. Was the back and sides plywood? You said the guitar had a decent sound when you were done is the reason I'm asking. For all I know the old guitar I'm considering rebuilding may have a plywood top or back or both. As I mentioned above, it's difficult ot draw a line what you are willing to replace and still claim it's the old guitar. If you left plywood back and sides on your rebuild and still got a decent sound that gives me a little feedback that will help me make a decision regarding this old guitar.

By the way, any chance you can post a picture of the guitar your telling us about?

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

I'll try and take some pictures and get em posted.

The guitar I worked on had solid wood sides-probably birch. And it had a molded plywood arch back on it.

Neil

I used to rebuild flea market specials just for the fun of it. Turned out I was even able to sell some of them, though not for enough to pay myself more than pennies an hour. I was lucky, because 30 years ago, most old guitars had NO value to speak of, so I got them for near nothing. The most I paid was $25 for a 30s Gibson L-00, and I considered that excessive.

Aside from the skills gained in putting these junkers back together, on the poorly made ones, I was able to see weak points in their design or construction that made them come apart, like poor materials, grain orientation, weak, poorly fitted joints, etc. That in turn led me into doing repairs while I was going to school. What I learned stood me in good stead when I started building in 2005.

I'd say, go ahead and fix it up. You'll learn a lot.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com