Official Luthiers Forum!

Which Is the Most Popular Style of Kerfing?/Which style is used by most high end Luthiers? and why

Triangle, beveled triangle or reverse kerfing

Empty space cut out by a saw is the only way to go.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

I use all the above-plus solid linings also.

I make mine from Sp. Cedar ,Mahogany,Spruce & Red Cedar.
I use a sliding jig on my table saw with a .039 kerf Diablo blade.
I Shape them on a router table.

Mike

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Mike Collins

Right - those of us who have been on the OLF for some time have been advised by Howard that a "kerf" is the empty space left by a saw blade.

If you mean "kerfed linings" I doubt that you will find one style to be more popular than others.

Standard kerfed linings, triangular in shape works fine but provide little stiffness to the rim.

Reverse kerfed linings are much stiffer and what I use.

Charles Fox designed a style of kerfed linings that is two pieces with a solid cap which is even stiffer than reverse kerfed linings. These linings are not commercially available however once in a while Paul Woolson will make some of these available by special order.

And then you have solid linings that have no kerfs at all and are used by some builders either as the linings or in the case of Rick Turner as an additional rim stiffener.

If you want a good stiff kerfed lining that is widely available from our sponsors and others reverse kerfed linings do the trick.

I could see that coming

Yes but is the empty space cut out by a saw as "perfect" as the empty space cut out by a CNC controlled laser? If you are serious about this business you have to know - the customers just won't tolerate it!!

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

From Howard? Naaaawwww!

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Daniel, please be sure to understand that no ones is picking on you. it is just that the use of the word kerfing or kerfling has been improperly substituted for kerfed linings. The kerf is the void cut into the linings. Heck some vendor web sites refer to kerfed linings as kerfling. Just a long standing laugh around here.

No offence meant. And welcome to the OLF

Since I started using solid liners, my grammar has improved when referring to the "K-word".

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

good one

There is nothing wrong with "kerfing". We all know what it means, and its shorter than "kerfed linings". As long as we know what it means, it is accurate. All words in the language at some time evolved from other words or were just made up. With use, they become accepted. I bet all of the unique luthier and music terms were new and strange at one time. I used to feel uncomfortable when the young store clerks would say "Have a nice one." Then I realized that other social amenities, such as "Hello, please, and thank you", were all at one time new and perhaps resented until people got used to them. I still cringe when wait staff ask me "How is your food tasting?" I accept "kerfing", but I hope I do not get used to "Wazzup".

Reverse kerfed spanish cedar. Love the scent too.

Mike

Daniel I missed that you are a new member - welcome to the OLF!

Bill my friend I have to take exception to your remarks here, respectfully. Regardless of if we all understand something there is always going to be the possibility that someone does not understand what we are trying to convey. Add the absence of real-time, personal interaction and an Internet forum is ripe for misunderstandings.

This is why I believe that if there is a proper name for something why not use it? After all often our comments are in the context of answering a question from someone who wants to know how to do something. I see no value in furthering inaccuracies in terminology especially when there is a teaching and learning element to OLF participation.

We cool?

Well you have a point to some degree if the use of slang is acceptable to you in describing components of a technical craft. But in another sense clarity of terminology in a technical craft lingo can be important. Lord knows I’m not one that is a stickler for dead proper queens English. But in terms of describing how to, when to and what to do in teaching this crafts skills terminology is important.

An example of what I mean.

Drawer sides and backs panels are joined typically with dovetail mortise and tenon joints and if we accept the given example of kerfing as a proper descriptive noun for kerfed linings then we too must accept dovetails as a proper descriptive noun for both drawer back and side panels.

How many things in woodworking use dovetail joints to join two pieces of wood together? How many things can you think of where you add kerf scoring to a component to be able to bend it around a frame work? The answer to both questions is “Lots”!!! So to me it seams logical that a calling kerfed linings kering or kerfling is at best a sloppy description and at worse can propagate a miss conception of what you are truly trying to convey. The intent of any descriptive noun is clarity in terminology. Kerfing as a descriptive noun for kerfed linings does not meet the clarity test in my personal opinion.

My big issue is that there is no noun in any dictionary I have found as kerfing meaning a saw slotted item (lining or whatever). There is the noun kerf and as Howard described the void left in by a saw cut or the width of a tool cut. This is important terminology in wood working. It describes a specific process or result of a process.

If you wish to use kerfing and or kerfling as a noun for kerfed lining then by all means you are welcome. Just be aware that when doing so in a post to help a newbe you are not helping them understand or learn a proper woodworking descriptive noun but rater are propagating slang.

Not that that is a crime or anything and I don’t think less of anyone the knows the meaning but still wishes to use the slang. The main thing to me is that they know what a kerf is.

That's the most popular style of kerf! Who's anal now!

...actually, I came in to write 'running a saw blade across something'

I decided to rebel and so, like Kevin Ryan, I found a way around using saws...

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

I agree with the sentiments the more precise and descriptive the terminology the better, especially
in an art & craft such as instrument making where hair splitting precision is required. Even though slang terms are used
and widely understood, it's in the best interest of all that a common knowledge of correct terms is maintained as well.
As someone pointed out, language evolves. Yes but, kind of like managing your lumber, it's best to keep the boards
as long as you can as long as you can (re: don't chop up the words into pieces that don't convey the complete meaning).
The longer precise terms are maintained the more solid the platform for the evolution of the next needed descriptive term (IMO).

An interesting note: I was reading a good book a while back - 'Diamond' by Matthew Hart were the term 'kerf' came up,
true to definition - "A kerf is a notch rubbed into a diamond with another diamond, usually preparatory to cleaving (pg217).

saludos, john

yup is it a gusset or is it cleat????????


In diamond mining and rough processing kerf is the void left by cutting a raw stone with an other. In machining it the void left by a machine tool. In wood working it is the void left by a saw, chisel or power tool. Anyone see the common word?

I am having a hard time figuring it out for my self but there is that 6" VOID between my ears that might be getting in the way

If the slot is a kerf, then the process is kerfing and the sawdust on the floor would be kerfage.



Welcome to the forum. We're just funnin ya.
I use triangular style. Spanish Cedar and basswood so far.

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Horton, MI

yep sounds rigth. Kerf and kerfage are nouns kerfing is a verb. This is my favorite debate!!! Though It never seems to happen arond here very often.

Now, I've come to know that Michael is a stickler for detail, accuracy, and clarity (and so is Hesh). He helps me a lot in my understanding of all things regarding guitar building. So I thought the following sentence (excerpted from above) was funny:

But in another sense clarity of terminology in a technical craft lingo can be important.

I will leave it alone. Just poking! I have little room to talk... I thought purfling was kerfing at one time. Or was that purfing was kerfling??

Mike

I actually L'd O L when I read that.

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Lining that is good to glue to rims and then glue tops and backs to it. I use varied ones for varied work or have available.

Daniel,

Welcome to the forum! Hope all this humor hasn't scared you off. We're not messing with you, it's just like Michael said, this sort of discussion has come up in the past and they seem to take off on their own like this one has.

I favor reverse cedar.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

None of these posts actually answer the question as stated. What is the Most Popular Style of Linings? 90% of all guitars made use the triangular kerfed linings. A lot of custom builders are switching to other kinds but I suspect that LMI and StewMac sells a heck of a lot more trianular linings than any other kinds.

If the question was really meant to be "What kinds of linings do you use?" than let the discussion begin!