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PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2022 8:35 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 951
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I've scratch built seven guitars of my own, working on #8.

Today my guitar teacher (Jeff Snow), who has watched my whole building experience, came up with an opportunity I couldn't refuse. He discovered he had in his guitar archive, much to his surprise, an Epiphone FT-135, which is a plywood import fighter Gibson imported from Japan in the mid-late 1970's. The best this guitar could draw from the marketplace is a couple-to-three hundred bucks, which I think means any repair expenses are wasted. And an x-brace leg ain't attached no more.

But Jeff knew I love to learn lutherie, and here's a chance to work out some repairs. I don't have a clue what to do about getting this wandering x-brace leg back to work. The other 'x' leg below the bridge is still attached. I have no idea about clamping things and getting an appropriate adhesive (which is?) on the brace. Building guitars is its own skill set that doesn't have much relationship to the surgery required to attend to braces inside a closed body.

Any comments and suggestions will get me to offer the suggester a beer next time we meet.

Thanks!

_________________
Peter Havriluk


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2022 4:57 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:00 pm
Posts: 980
First name: Josh
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I presume in the following that you mean the X is intact and joined at its intersection, but there is a gap under one leg?

Here’s one basic procedure:

1. Clean debris, dirt and dust from the inside of the box - vacuum etc

2. Clean old dried glue from the soundboard surface under the brace. I use multiple tools for this - thin feeler gauges with 180 and 220 grit paper on one side, a scrap of flexible dozuki saw blade to “saw” out any serious chunks or stalactites of glue. I have lengths of bent 1/4” steel rod in various dog leg shapes with feeler gauges soldered to the end to do this cleaning deep in the body.

3. Repeat cleaning for the gluing surface of the loose brace.

4. Vacuum, soft artists brush etc to remove debris dust and contaminants from gluing area.

5. Apply glue. If it’s your first attempt at a brace reglue I would stick with Titebond or similar for the extra open time. You may be able to syringe the glue where it is needed. Or maybe you can put glue next to the loose brace and push it under the brace with a feeler gauge or palette knife. Or (gently) blow it under there with compressed air. Do what you need to do to get ample glue under the brace.

6. Initial cleanup of excess glue with damp cloth, damp q-tip etc. When the brace is clamped it may be more difficult to get your hand in to cleanup so do it now. It’s not considered acceptable in the repair trade to leave ugly excess glue smeared around in the box.

7. Apply clamps - you have to devise a scheme that will work best for you. Deep throat clamps and appropriate cauls? Mini popsicle stick go-bars wedged between the back and loose x-brace? Magnets? Turnbuckle spreader clamps to push up on the brace? Fancy Stewmac scissor jacks? Anything goes that gets the job done is ok. My favourite are turnbuckles and scissor jacks as unlike conventional clamps they leave the soundhole open so I can get back in and cleanup squeezeout. With any method that pushes outwards from inside the box you MUST place cauls on the outside and apply a gentle squeeze with a cam clamp or similar to counteract those forces, or you risk cracks. Also - cauls or cork padding or similar internally so you don’t damage the surface of the brace you are regluing.

8. Go back in and clean up squeezeout. When the glue dries the job is done.

If you’re interested in repair, there are several highly regarded books, of which the Honourable Sir D. Erlewine esq.’s “Guitar Player Repair Guide” is the most modern. Slightly more old school but excellent is Hideo Kamimoto’s “Complete Guitar Repair”. Also, St Francisco of Palo Alto has invaluable info on all manner of acoustic repairs over on frets.com.

The above procedure once you’ve done it a few times goes quickly and a brace reglue is a small job for a repair shop in most cases.


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These users thanked the author joshnothing for the post (total 4): Pmaj7 (Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:01 pm) • phavriluk (Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:19 pm) • SteveSmith (Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:33 am) • Hesh (Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:36 am)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 2:38 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12971
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Please see Josh's excellent master class post in reattaching an X-leg. Excellent post, covered it all and even made it logically sequential. Way to go Josh!!!

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Ann Arbor Guitars



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: joshnothing (Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:11 am)
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2022 11:22 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 951
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
We all need to pause in admiration and respect for the care and insight folks offer - - - well-appreciated gifts.

Josh offered me a graduate course on repair and work flow. I'm very grateful.

Thanks, everybody!

_________________
Peter Havriluk



These users thanked the author phavriluk for the post (total 2): joshnothing (Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:23 am) • Hesh (Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:33 am)
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 5:23 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:00 pm
Posts: 980
First name: Josh
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
You’re welcome and considering your experience building guitars you should have no problem getting this Epi back in fighting shape. Let us know how it goes!


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 06, 2022 10:33 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:49 pm
Posts: 951
First name: peter
Last Name: havriluk
City: granby
State: ct
Zip/Postal Code: 06035
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
This Epi project is more of a curiosity exercise between friends than anything else. I'm not tooled up for repair and I don't want to spend cash on stuff that will seldom get used. But I do have an endoscope on its way...

I have a group of palette knives of various shapes and some double-sided tape. I bought those knives 'just because' a few years ago and now I have a definite use.

Goody!

I'll stay in touch.

_________________
Peter Havriluk


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 08, 2022 4:50 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:00 pm
Posts: 980
First name: Josh
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What should walk through the door of the shop today but…

Image

(I was just starting old glue removal - You can see my feeler gauge with 180 grit stuck under the brace.

Also, this pic illustrates one of the reasons one may choose to split one’s bracewood, rather than saw it.)


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