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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:18 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4159
Location: Virginia
I'll say what I said again.... It was a $1000 student model cello that is perfect for a student instrument repair tech. If the internet was around when I started DIY'ing this kind of work I'd have been shamed to oblivion and my guess is pro's like Hesh and Chris would too. Am I right? Perhaps not. You guys might be God gifted naturals. But I am humble enough to admit that yes, I once used dowels to fix a broken headstock... The shame. :D

Having said that I had a guy bring in a very nice violin to my shop just the other day because someone had put one of those expansion pegs in since the original peg would no longer hold tune and sure enough the head cracked. I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I could fix this instrument even though I don't normally do violin work but I sent him up to Washington DC to a shop that is known to get it done right. At certain points it's just the right thing to do. I the case of the OP though not really and it turns out he fixed the thing good.

I used to work construction jobs on summer breaks too and the head carpenters often time gave 'college boy' a hard time because I dind't know the inns and outs of the trade and would do stupid things. That was until they realized that I was willing to work and to work hard. I never cared for the 'tough love' method of instruction. It's belittling. So I give the OP a pat on the back.



These users thanked the author jfmckenna for the post: Barry Daniels (Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:16 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:25 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2109
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Hesh, I do remember a time when you were very inexperienced and were taking on projects beyond your skill set. Everybody has to start somewhere. And there really is no excuse for the rude and condescending comments by the other one.


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:54 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 536
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Hesh wrote:
This trade also requires as humbling as it may be one to understand that we have to at all times do no harm to these instruments that we are fortunate enough to have been asked to repair.


The best, most clearly articulated, and concise advice I got when I was talking to an older luthier acquaintance about the idea of getting into repair work. He told me its just like being a doctor, "Do no harm". Those three words have kept me out of all kinds of trouble. When it comes to other peoples stuff, if in my minds eye I can't follow the thread from broken to fixed, it's not a job for me. On my own stuff on the other hand...

Having said that I'm grateful for all the help I've received from this forum, gruff or otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:29 am 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 10291
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
Country: United States
Status: Professional
And so was I Connor when Rick Turner once told me that even though I could build a pretty nice guitar I'll never be a Luthier unless I learn to do repair work. I thought Rick was a jerk and then I met him in person and we've been friends ever since. He was right.

Mario minced no words either and I didn't like him either early on. He just had a birthday by the way and we are friends these days.

Folks told me when I didn't like the gruff approach that I needed to "thicken up" and they were right.

Have all the fun you want building and even repairing if it's your's or likely to remain your's but if you have commercial intent there is a different set of standards for appropriate work. This is the perspective that Chris speaks from and I do as well.

Barry my friend I would respectfully ask you to produce any evidence here or anywhere else that I ever took on anything above my pay grade? Seriously I was likely overly cautious and would not even sell one of my creations until I learned to do refrets, neck resets, bridge reglues in an effort to be capable of actually supporting the warranty that I provided. Promises made must be promises kept.... what a concept.

Looking forward to you producing a thread Barry from the past no matter how distant of me taking on any repair job on anything that was not my own with no intent to sell or flip prior to my repair apprenticeship that lasted several years. It simply never happened.

Now I'm not here to argue with any of you and Barry has been one of my building mentors over the years and I've said this before that I remain very grateful to you Barry. We simply disagree on Chris and I'm not going to let that get in the way of my good feelings about you Barry and I hope you would do the same. If you truly believe that I jumped in with minimal or no experience to any repair work ever produce an example please? Thanks.

I do understand how Chris feels and admitted to sharing these feelings after having to see the sorrow and pick up the pieces of countless broken instruments that were destroyed or hacked up by someone who never should have been working on them.

For those of us who work in the trade and fix hundreds of instruments if not more annually and are reviewed by countless clients with our work scrutinized by peer review the perspective is different than the hobbyist that I once was. Connor gets it, do no harm and part of doing no harm is not sticking your chest out and believing that you and your chops are invincible. Stuff happens, the best laid plans of Luthiers and men and women etc.

Anyway Chris wanna get drunk sometime buddy? :). Barry you are invited too, always and so are you Connor.



These users thanked the author Hesh for the post: DanKirkland (Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:45 am)
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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:39 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 4020
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Quote:
I think someone owes Robert an apology.


I rarely apologize for being grumpy. It's not a sin, and in my opinion it's not even a fault.

As I pointed out earlier, my true gripe was in Robert not asking first in this day and age before diving into the project. I would gladly have helped him then.

Yes, I HAVE done violin family repair for the local school system. I just don't advertise the fact because I prefer guitar repair, and school systems pay very little. USD 259 will spend $50 for repair of a string instrument (any size up to a bass). Any more repair required, and the instrument is broken down into component parts to be recycled as spares. The rule is: take the back off, and be careful around the button. Once I did it 10 times, it became easy and I never broke another one in 40 plus years. PLUS - a broken button can be repaired, and GEE - it so happens that's what I do!

I don't care if Robert made the cello look like a Strad in the end, he should have asked first. That's all. And NO, I don't want him to go into the repair business despite his foray. As I said, I think he's a slow learner. I don't know it, but that's how he seems to me.

Finally, Hesh - again with the kind words. Thanks so much. I think I told you once I don't drink, but that's cool. I would LOVE to hang with you sometime. Even more than once should it ever become possible.

Last word: I post here to help, to dispense knowledge, to be a part of the community. I do NOT come here to soothe peoples feelings or to get my ego buttered up. The 3 guys here on the OLF who've met me know I'm abrupt, and that I worship at the church of the painful truth. My clients know it, too. After 40 plus years, I still turn down work right and left, and haven't advertised in the phone book since 1990.

And with that, it's back to the splinter factory (as legendary repairman Don Teeter used to say).

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince


Last edited by Chris Pile on Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:25 pm 
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Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 10291
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Hey Chris sorry I forgot that you don't drink, my sincere apologies. I'd love to hang with you too my friend and you have a standing invitation to visit Ann Arbor Guitars any time that you wish. I may be out your way in the future too just bought a new car and radar detector... and hope to be road tripping out to see Link Van Cleave (another former participant here who is now a trained pro repair person) in California.

Link spent time with us for a couple of summers as our apprentice under the Lutherie instruction of my business partner David Collins and under the how to run a proper business instruction of your's truly. It was a good time.

I apprenticed with David Collins for three years before I hung out a shingle and took in repair work. That was over ten years ago now since I hung out my first shingle as a repair Luthier.

Anyway happy repairing Chris.


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:36 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2109
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
I give up.


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 6:41 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 1:31 pm
Posts: 21
First name: Robert
Last Name: Calabro
Focus: Repair
Status: Amateur
Thanks guys for the vote of confidence. I have been doing general woodworking for well over 20 years of course not in the instrument field. I appreciate all the remarks positive and negative. Although I do wonder how I am a "slow" leaner. Perception is reality I suppose.

I never did intend this repair to be a money maker or for the purpose of selling the instrument. I value my own time and given that, this Cello would never make me any money or even cover my costs. It was always an exercise in luthiery.

Here is some of the work I do. My wife is an artist and I make all of her frames. This is a frame for a work of hers in progress.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN ... JtQ1FSMDRn

I also make music boxes here is one of those.

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipO ... V5Z1dtQVlB

Image

Image

Wenge and Padauk Box

Image


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:44 am 
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Contributing Member
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 5666
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Very nice work and good job on the cello.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:57 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 4159
Location: Virginia
You know it's funny. I've been building and repairing guitars for 27 years now. I only tried to do this professionally (meaning without a day job) for a few years before all the local mom and pop shops that I did repairs for closed down thanks to the Interned. But I digress.

A couple years ago I built some frames for some art work and tried my hand at a jewelry box... OMG! I think I will just stick to building guitars LOL. I thought, hey after building guitars a frame or a simple box ought to be a piece of cake. Boy was I wrong.

Anyway that is some nice work there, very nice indeed.


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:36 am 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 3:25 pm
Posts: 225
Location: Bozeman, MT
First name: Tony
Last Name: Thatcher
City: Bozeman
State: MT
jfmckenna wrote:
You know it's funny. I've been building and repairing guitars for 27 years now. I only tried to do this professionally (meaning without a day job) for a few years before all the local mom and pop shops that I did repairs for closed down thanks to the Interned. But I digress.

A couple years ago I built some frames for some art work and tried my hand at a jewelry box... OMG! I think I will just stick to building guitars LOL. I thought, hey after building guitars a frame or a simple box ought to be a piece of cake. Boy was I wrong.

Anyway that is some nice work there, very nice indeed.


I agree! I hate square corners and mitered joints! I can never get them a good as I do on a guitar!

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Tony Thatcher
Bozeman, Montana


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 Post subject: Re: Cello Repair
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:50 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 502
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
mountain whimsy wrote:
jfmckenna wrote:
You know it's funny. I've been building and repairing guitars for 27 years now. I only tried to do this professionally (meaning without a day job) for a few years before all the local mom and pop shops that I did repairs for closed down thanks to the Interned. But I digress.

A couple years ago I built some frames for some art work and tried my hand at a jewelry box... OMG! I think I will just stick to building guitars LOL. I thought, hey after building guitars a frame or a simple box ought to be a piece of cake. Boy was I wrong.

Anyway that is some nice work there, very nice indeed.


I agree! I hate square corners and mitered joints! I can never get them a good as I do on a guitar!


Apart from luthiery I practice traditional Japanese joinery (furniture mostly).

There's a saying "A carpenter cries at the corners". It's made worse by the fact that in traditional joinery they discourage you from "test fitting". And let me tell you until you've tried to fit mitered dovetails together using solely your measuring and marking skills, you have no idea what it means to cry.


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