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 Post subject: Vinyl sealer?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 7:14 pm 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:31 pm
Posts: 70
I'm shooting behlens nitro onto a sanded to bare wood archtop (spruce/birch and maple)
It was recommended at the shop that I use behlen's vinyl sealer as my first coat or two, I guess particularly as I was thinking of having a light amber coat.

Is this necessary?
Recommended?
Bad?


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl sealer?
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 1673
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I am far from being a finishing expert but I shoot sealer for two reasons. First, if I put anything on the bare wood to stain or color it I have been told I want to "seal" that before shooting anything that might draw the color back out. Seems reasonable.

Second, once upon a time I shot some colored lacquer over some maple without any preparation material. I did some staining to highlight grain, then shot a couple of coats of highly thinned lacquer, then the color over the top. I had a couple of places where the lacquer chipped off the underlying wood, mostly where I had drilled holes or was attaching hardware. I posted a picture here as I recall and was told I should have used a sealer to help the bonding process.

After that I have always shot a coat or two of vinyl sealer and I've had no finish problems. Knock wood...


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl sealer?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:03 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 2520
Location: Magnolia DE
First name: Brian
Last Name: Howard
City: Magnolia
State: Delaware
Zip/Postal Code: 19962
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Here is a bit of recommended reading for you, first a bit about sealers and what they do and why yoiu need one......https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2017/01/sealers-for-air-dry-lacquers-by-brian.html

And a bit about nitro lacquer.
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2015/02/air-dry-lacquers.html

And here are my latest thoughts on nitro....
https://howardguitars.blogspot.com/2018/06/the-end-of-nitrocellulose-lacquer-era.html

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.



http://www.brianhowardguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Howard-G ... 3702413493
http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl sealer?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 10:31 am 
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Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:31 pm
Posts: 70
Good stuff, thanks very much. Answered many of my questions and provided much food for thought.
I would be probably be inclined to use a water based finish (It's what I use for everything else(bows, guitar cabs what have you) but I had some vinyl sealer and a can of lacquer left over from the other restoration project I did a year ago. I will admit to enjoying finish that ambers over natural wood. Probably my only disappointment with the varathane diamond finish I often use in other projects. However it is a small disappointment when compared to the huge benefits of water clean up, quick drying and no poisonous stench.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl sealer?
PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 7:43 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 829
Location: United States
I don’t find it necessary. I seal when I pore fill with epoxy. I use nitro and haven’t had a problem with adhesion. Vinyl sealer is not sanding sealer. It’s a moisture barrier.


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl sealer?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:27 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 2520
Location: Magnolia DE
First name: Brian
Last Name: Howard
City: Magnolia
State: Delaware
Zip/Postal Code: 19962
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Glen H wrote:
I don’t find it necessary. I seal when I pore fill with epoxy. I use nitro and haven’t had a problem with adhesion. Vinyl sealer is not sanding sealer. It’s a moisture barrier.


Epoxy is your sealer when you pore fill with it...

Vinyl sealer is both a moisture barrier and a sanding sealer. Oh and a bridge to help prevent cold checks in the top coat.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.



http://www.brianhowardguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Howard-G ... 3702413493
http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/


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 Post subject: Re: Vinyl sealer?
PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:25 pm 
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Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2014 1:27 pm
Posts: 286
First name: john
Last Name: shelton
City: Alsea
State: Oregon
Zip/Postal Code: 97324
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
B. Howard wrote:

Epoxy is your sealer when you pore fill with it...

Vinyl sealer is both a moisture barrier and a sanding sealer. Oh and a bridge to help prevent cold checks in the top coat.


I can't thank you enough for sharing your invaluable knowledge on finishing. If I were younger I'd definitely be switching to a modern finish over nitro but don't want to spend the $$'s since I don't know how much longer I'll be able to build. You are truly a valuable resource.


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