Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 9:27 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 11:43 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Hi, a fellow wants me to re-glue this sound hole rosette on his ovation. It's about 1/2 - 2/3 unglued. There's nothing else wrong with the guitar seems like I should be able to simply clean most of the glue off and reglue with titebond. There's nothing structural about it. Am I missing anything?


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:44 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 5743
First name: Chris
Last Name: Pile
City: Wichita
State: Kansas
Country: Good old US of A
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Yeah, I suppose you could. But why?

See my comments on other Ovation threads about dropping anvils on them.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince



These users thanked the author Chris Pile for the post: Hesh (Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:17 am)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:24 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Chris Pile wrote:
Yeah, I suppose you could. But why?

See my comments on other Ovation threads about dropping anvils on them.


Haha, yup. Not my favorite.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 10:34 am 
Online
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 11:42 pm
Posts: 1701
First name: John
Last Name: Parchem
City: Seattle
State: Wa
Zip/Postal Code: 98177
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Seems like a perfect place for CA. Probably get away with no cleanup.

_________________
http://www.Harvestmoonguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:11 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
johnparchem wrote:
Seems like a perfect place for CA. Probably get away with no cleanup.


Cool, I didn't think of that, my mind went straight to titebond.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:39 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 2124
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Another vote for thin CA. If you put some wax (paraffin or candle wax) on the top all around the rosette and wick the CA into the gap you'll stand a better chance of it not adhering to the finish. I'm always afraid of using accelerator around finish - sometimes it seems to make it cloudy - so I would just use the glue and a little light clamping



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post (total 2): Bryan Bear (Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:57 pm) • Conor_Searl (Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:21 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:22 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Freeman wrote:
Another vote for thin CA. If you put some wax (paraffin or candle wax) on the top all around the rosette and wick the CA into the gap you'll stand a better chance of it not adhering to the finish. I'm always afraid of using accelerator around finish - sometimes it seems to make it cloudy - so I would just use the glue and a little light clamping


How do you thin CA?

Also when you say use wax around the rosette how do you suggest applying the wax?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:00 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 854
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Conor_Searl wrote:
Freeman wrote:
Another vote for thin CA. If you put some wax (paraffin or candle wax) on the top all around the rosette and wick the CA into the gap you'll stand a better chance of it not adhering to the finish. I'm always afraid of using accelerator around finish - sometimes it seems to make it cloudy - so I would just use the glue and a little light clamping


How do you thin CA?

Also when you say use wax around the rosette how do you suggest applying the wax?


Apply wax with your fingers.

You can get CA glue in varying viscosity from suppliers like LMII and such.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 2:40 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
I've got this paste finishing wax, will this work? Or should I melt a candle and apply the warm wax, or just wipe around the rosette with a dry candle?

Afterwards do I just wipe the wax off, or will I have to buff it out?

Conor


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:13 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:17 am
Posts: 995
Location: United States
City: Tyler
State: Texas
That's the stuff.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:46 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:54 am
Posts: 854
State: Texas
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Conor_Searl wrote:
I've got this paste finishing wax, will this work? Or should I melt a candle and apply the warm wax, or just wipe around the rosette with a dry candle?

Afterwards do I just wipe the wax off, or will I have to buff it out?

Conor


I wouldn't warm the wax since it'll be tough to control. You can use the paste finishing wax just fine, just wear gloves. The candle wax could work I just haven't tried it myself.

All the wax does it make any runout of glue stick to the wax and not stick to the guitar top. After you've done your glue up all you should really have to do is wipe off the wax with some guitar polish. The wax is pretty benign stuff (it won't eat through your finish) so don't overthink it too much.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:53 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 2124
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
That will work but I keep a little piece of paraffin (or the stub of a candle) and just rub the wax on the surface next to where I'm going to do the repair. The CA won't stick to the wax, it kind of beads up and you can chip it off with your fingernail. Obviously don't get the wax into the joint you are trying to glue.

CA (cyanoacrylate) glue comes in several viscosities - thin (or water thin), medium, gel. You can get them all from various vendors including StewMac and GlueBoost (both OLF sponsors). Normally you can't find the thin stuff at a hardware store but hobby shops might have it.

I use the medium for most gluing tasks where I can get the nozzle in the joint, the thin stuff will wick its way into cracks by capillary action. You can get little pipettes to apply it - its wonderful for minor cracks that aren't opened up. I think in this case you can probably get medium under the rosette but the thin would work its way under the area that hasn't come loose yet.

When I'm done with a repair like this I usually do buff it with a fine auto polishing compound (with no wax or silicon). You can remove the wax with denatured alcohol or just polish with a rag.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:55 pm 
Offline
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
Old Growth Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 02, 2007 9:49 am
Posts: 12971
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
First name: Hesh
Last Name: Breakstone
City: Ann Arbor
State: Michigan
Country: United States
Status: Professional
Be careful Conor if you screw up it might sound better.....;)

_________________
Ann Arbor Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:17 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 7240
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Hesh wrote:
Be careful Conor if you screw up it might sound better.....;)


Be hard to make it worse beehive

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"



These users thanked the author SteveSmith for the post: Hesh (Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:30 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:37 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 3081
Guess I don't have the guts for that. It's not mine, even if it is a POS.
I'd probably use clear double stick carpet tape and cut it after sticking. You can also buy sheets of "stickum" for pickguards. Peel off paper, stick to rosette, peel off the other side of paper and adhere. You could even throw a couple of clamps and a caul on it overnight to be sure.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 11:31 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:06 pm
Posts: 409
First name: Allan
Last Name: Bacon
State: Kansas
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Oh Jeez, another Ovation bash...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:21 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:54 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA
First name: Dan
Last Name: Savage
City: Trabuco Canyon
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92679
Country: USA
Don't try to clean the glue off the underside of the rosette. The factory used epoxy to glue these to the polyester finish.

Personally, I would not use CA on the Ovation rosette as it's liable to wick between the pearloid layer and the plastic rosette and dissolve the oak-leaf pattern silk-screened to the underside of the plastic rosette.

A better bet is to use hardware store-grade 5-minute epoxy. That's what the factory used and what I use to glue rosettes onto the Os I've restored.

Hold it into place with your fingers until the glue cures. If you have any squeeze-out, clean it up with denatured alcohol before it cures.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:29 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:15 pm
Posts: 1701
First name: Joey
Last Name: Holliday
City: Palmetto
State: Florida
Zip/Postal Code: 34221
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Conor_Searl wrote:
Freeman wrote:
Another vote for thin CA. If you put some wax (paraffin or candle wax) on the top all around the rosette and wick the CA into the gap you'll stand a better chance of it not adhering to the finish. I'm always afraid of using accelerator around finish - sometimes it seems to make it cloudy - so I would just use the glue and a little light clamping


How do you thin CA?

Also when you say use wax around the rosette how do you suggest applying the wax?


If you have a Rockler or Woodcraft near you they usually carry (thin viscosity CA) as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:23 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:54 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA
First name: Dan
Last Name: Savage
City: Trabuco Canyon
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92679
Country: USA
fumblefinger wrote:
Oh Jeez, another Ovation bash...


Yep. Haters gotta hate...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:26 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Tue May 01, 2012 12:54 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Trabuco Canyon, CA
First name: Dan
Last Name: Savage
City: Trabuco Canyon
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92679
Country: USA
fingerstyle1978 wrote:

If you have a Rockler or Woodcraft near you they usually carry (thin viscosity CA) as well.


Or, your local hobby shop sells it. Modelers were using CA long before luthiers 'discovered' it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2017 2:19 am 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:18 am
Posts: 265
Location: United States
First name: Frank
Last Name: Ford
City: Palo Alto
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 94301
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I usually take the rosette off and use regular contact cement to glue it back - quick and easy. Spread it on nice and thick, let it dry, squish the parts together. . .

_________________
Cheers,

Frank Ford

FRETS.COM
HomeShopTech
FRETS.NET


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com