Official Luthiers Forum!

Solely owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:28 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:52 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Here's the next 2 vlogs in the saga - it's taking me a couple of days from filming to getting them up on the 'tube, so bear with me.





If you have any particular process that you'd like me to video and put up as one of the vlogs, please let me know.

Cheers for now,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:20 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
So here's what happened Friday night:

I made the decision to glue the soundboard on first. Normally, I glue the back onto the sides first so that I can clean everything up nicely, however, I had several unknowns with this new smooth bevel idea of mine, such as a) was it really stiff enough without any braces, b) how hard was it going to be to glue in the go-bar deck, c) are the kerfed lining surface angles all correct, d) was I going to use a pinless bridge or normal pins, so I'd need a bridge patch, etc, etc.

So, I set to getting the soundboard and sides to mate nicely (using a nice sharp plane and a sanding dish). Then I did a trial run at the clamping setup that I'd need to do in the go-bar deck. Immediately, I found a problem. The smooth bevel is at too steep an angle for the little wood blocks to "stick" on the soundboard - they slipped off every time I wasn't looking! I found a simple solution in the form of a bar placed at the edge of the bevel so the blocks couldn't slip off [:Y:]

Here's a bunch of pictures showing the process:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

It glued up without incident - just like any normal back or soundboard. I love it! Here's what it looked like after I'd routed the excess off the soundboard:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Then very late at night, I made some side braces from some (zero cost) scraps of mahogany and glued them in, one side at a time. The astute among you will also notice that I added some "wings" to the neck block. This was because the walnut sides split vertically in several places near the neck block - there was some wild grain in that area, and I guess it wasn't that strong. The added wings provide a very strong tie into the neck block as well as providing a solid backing for the wild walnut grain.

Image

Image

I'll post today's activities in a new thread in a minute.

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:41 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
So, here's what happened today (Saturday August 18th):

Unclamped the side braces that I'd left to dry overnight. They came out nicely. Here's a closeup of a typical one:

Image

Then I made some waist blocks from some scrap phenolic birch plywood, shaped them to fit the waist, worked out the angles needed for drilling, then drilled holes in them and the neck block for the two carbon fiber buttress tubes that I needed to stiffen up the whole upper bout and that direct a lot of the string tension into the waist of the guitar, where it is very strong and stiff. I cut the 3/8" CF tube to length then using epoxy glue for the CF and wood glue for the waist blocks, fitted them both and clamped the assembly up. Then went for a nice long dinner to let it set.

Image

Image

Image

Here's what they looked like after the glues were dry:

Image

Then, after deciding that I would probably stick with bridge pins for now, I made a nice hard bridge patch (in my trademark oval shape that matches the bridge shape I use) from a piece of Katalox. This wood was given to me by Peter Hurney in payment for doing some laser work for him (on a Monarch butterfly inlay), so again, cost = $0!!

Image

I glued the bridge patch in using the go-bar deck:

Image

Then I contemplated the stiffness of the soundboard. I think I may have gone too thin on the top and bottom skins. It was not as firm and stiff as I'd like, and certainly nowhere near as stiff as the ESJ1 (first version of my experiment). So, I decided I needed to add just one stiffening brace that would stiffen up the bridge area and prevent the guitar from bellying (eventually). I used the laser to cut it out. Here it is being glued in:

Image

And here it is after gluing:

Image

This was a leftover piece of the brace material from the back of the guitar, so once again, no cost adder :D

Tomorrow it will be time to prepare the back/back braces/side mortices to accept them and then glue the back on! By tomorrow night, the box will be closed and ready for binding/purf....

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:29 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:52 am
Posts: 4239
First name: Big
Last Name: Jim
State: Deep in the heart of Bluegrass
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I love the looks of this so far . Have you ever thought of offering to sell precut braces lasered like that for others to build with ?

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 7:31 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 5151
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Those braces are purdy!

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:14 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Yup. Cool braces!

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:01 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:51 pm
Posts: 1011
First name: Chris
Last Name: Ensor
City: Springfield
State: Missouri
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Very cool.

Must be lightest braced top in history...

_________________
Chris Ensor
http://ensorguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:35 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I think other luthiers have done this before Chris. How about those CF instruments from Rainsong et al?
The new bits are a) using an all spruce triple sandwich with laser-cut honeycomb, and b) my smooth bevel idea. Well, that's as far as I can tell (I can't find anyone else who's done these two things before - anyone know differently?).

Cheers for now,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:07 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Somehow I forgot to process the video I'd taken of laser-cutting the braces.
Here it is, albeit out of order with the vlog, but never mind:



I haven't really considered making laser-cut braces for money. I have done a few small laser engraving/cutting jobs for other luthiers in the past (if they asked nicely!). My real job (iPhone RF Hardware Engineer) keeps me pretty busy and adequately compensated already. I want to keep my woodworking/music/lutherie as a hobby for now....no deadlines, no pressure [:Y:]

I'll post today's activities tomorrow - gotta get to bed.....work in the morning!

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:35 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 6:25 pm
Posts: 2743
Location: Netherlands
Looking good!

Question: is it easy/safe/advisable to retrofit a CNC router with a laser cutter head? Seems like an interesting addition to the arsenal...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:27 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 5151
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Dave Fifield wrote:
... My real job (iPhone RF Hardware Engineer) ...


Ha, that explains a few things (from a cyclotron RF Hardware Engineer). :lol:

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:56 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Mattia - it's technically possible to add a laser to an existing 3-axis CNC machine, but it's not at all advisable.

For starters, unless you have a huge gantry with powerful motors, you will have to mount the laser tube at one end of the table then use mirrors to direct the beam first along the X axis, then the Y axis, then finally down to the work on the Z axis. You would need to send a columated beam of laser light down the mirror system to do this without burning the mirror surfaces and then use a de-columating lens at the work head to turn the laser beam into a focused high power beam once again. Actually, this is pretty much exactly what Epilog et al do in thier lasers. The operative word here is "in".....mounting such a system "ON" an open CNC system will create a laser hazard such that it would never be allowed to be used in an industrial environment with people around. I'm sure you could make such a system and use it in your own home, but I'd still be VERY worried about having a high-power laser beam exposed at all.

Steve - wadyamean? I'm a "real" engineer with musical and artistic talents to boot.....

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 2:39 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
So, here's where my build got to by close-of-business Sunday night:

I cut the pockets (mortices) for the back brace ends into the kerfed lining on the sides.
I made a simple new jig to do this. Previously, I balanced my Dremel/Stewmac base on a pair of metal straight edges, but this was not a very stable set up and almost resulted in disaster several times when the straight edges moved! I laser-cut the new jig from 1/4" thick acrylic sheet. I also made a new oversize base for the Stewmac Dremel holder, so that I could use my digital Wixey height guage to set the bit height accurately. Here's a short vlog showing the pocket routing process:



Then I trimmed the back braces to length and glued the back on in my go-bar deck:

Image

A few hours later, I took it out and routed/sanded the excess from the edge of the back, and here's how it came out:

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

All ready for binding/purfling [:Y:]

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 6:58 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 5151
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Dave Fifield wrote:
... Steve - wadyamean? I'm a "real" engineer with musical and artistic talents to boot.....

Cheers,
Dave F.


Exactly - ;) I thought it was interesting to run into another RF hardware guy here - not that many of us around. Iphone and cyclotron RF systems may not have much in common, still ........

BTW, the box looks real good and I am supremely envious of your ability to knock out such cool jigs and parts with that laser :mrgreen:

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:37 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:13 pm
Posts: 215
First name: Steve
Last Name: Ellis
City: Manteca
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95337
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Loving the vlogs. I'm in Manteca and may have to drop by for a visit.

Steve


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:29 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:12 am
Posts: 1127
First name: Rodger
Last Name: Knox
City: Baltimore
State: MD
Zip/Postal Code: 21234
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
This is all really impressive. I'm happy when I get within .01" with most of the stuff I do. Thicknessing tops, sides, and backs is the only thing I can depend on being that close.
I really like the top bevel, I might have to steal that idea. [:Y:]

_________________
A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:49 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Steve_E wrote:
Loving the vlogs. I'm in Manteca and may have to drop by for a visit.

Steve


Hi Steve (boy, there are a lot of Steve's here....!),

Anytime you like Sir. Give me a shout on PM and I'll send you the addy/phone etc.

Have you, or are you going to join NCAL? (Northern California Association of Luthiers) We're just an informal group that meets at peoples' workshops to have a chin wag, catch up, and listen to someone spout on their favorite topic for a bit (actually, its always VERY interesting!). If you like, I'll give you the nod when the next meeting is announced.

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:53 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Rodger Knox wrote:
I really like the top bevel, I might have to steal that idea. [:Y:]


Have at it Rodger! Let's call it the "Cambrian Smooth Bevel" (so there aren't any nasty letters or threads about it in years to come!).
Let me know if you find an easy way to cut the ledges for the binding/purfling around the smooth bevel area!
I'm struggling with that right now.....I may have to break out my chisels (if I can remember where I put them.........just kidding......I know where they are....no....really!! :lol: )

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:57 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I've been away from my 'shop for a short while - wife and son #2's birthdays, cutting 6" off the back of an entertainment unit for one of my wife's pals, helping my buddy Bill work on his uke, inlaying some MOP shark fins onto his uke fretboard, etc. Here's a piccy of the inlays FWIW:

Image

Tonight I worked on routing out the binding/purf channels.
The channels around the smooth bevel area are proving to be a distinct challenge.
I will have to finish them off by hand with chisels as I suspected.
I'm racking my brain (duh.....what brain was that?) to try and come up with a jig to cut them accurately.
Another thing that's a bit disconcerting is that the routed channels have exposed the linings and let all the kerfings escape! Not sure what to do about that?....

Here's some piccies:

First one shows the binding/purfling channels on the "normal" bit of the top
Image

Second one shows how the channels don't exactly line up at the boundary between the smooth bevel and the normal bit. I have some work to do in this area in particular...
Image

Thirdly, here's a shot of the back channels. It's gratifying to note that the back braces were let into the sides almost perfectly (height wise).
Image

Binding bending time tomorrow....fun, fun, fun!

Cheers,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:41 am 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany

Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:26 pm
Posts: 89
Dave Fifield wrote:
I think other luthiers have done this before Chris. How about those CF instruments from Rainsong et al?
The new bits are a) using an all spruce triple sandwich with laser-cut honeycomb, and b) my smooth bevel idea. Well, that's as far as I can tell (I can't find anyone else who's done these two things before - anyone know differently?).

Cheers for now,
Dave F.



Dave,

Sheldon Schwartz uses similar although smaller arm rest in his Oracle model:

http://www.schwartzguitars.com/oracle.htm


Anyway, this is so cool build you do, hats off here!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:45 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:36 am
Posts: 5151
Location: Southeast US
City: Lenoir City
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37772
Country: US
Focus: Repair
Dave Fifield wrote:
...
Another thing that's a bit disconcerting is that the routed channels have exposed the linings and let all the kerfings escape! Not sure what to do about that?....


Get hold of Tony at Costa Guitars - I'm sure he will hook you up with a bucket full you can dump back in there. :lol:

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:19 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
SteveSmith wrote:
Dave Fifield wrote:
...
Another thing that's a bit disconcerting is that the routed channels have exposed the linings and let all the kerfings escape! Not sure what to do about that?....


Get hold of Tony at Costa Guitars - I'm sure he will hook you up with a bucket full you can dump back in there. :lol:



No charge! I'm sending them today. In fact, they should be in your shop already. See that "empty" looking bucket over there in the corner? It might be somewhere else, I don't know where you keep your buckets. Anyway, its now chock full of kerfs! Go ahead and dump them into the guitar!

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 6:46 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 5:19 pm
Posts: 78
First name: Aaron
City: Mustang
State: OK
Country: USA
Hey Dave - just wanted to pipe in and say that I'm really enjoying your build! Quite a different approach and use of tools. Thanks for posting the vids as well! Looking forward to the finished product.

_________________
"Never give in. Never give in. Never, never, never, never--in nothing, great or small, large or petty--never give in, except to convictions of honor and good sense. Never yield to force. Never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." - Winston Churchill


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:09 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 8:05 pm
Posts: 1567
Location: San Jose, CA
First name: Dave
Last Name: Fifield
City: San Jose
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 95124
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
JLK - Well I'll be......just goes to prove there's nothing new under the sun! I doff my cap to Mr. Schwartz and will henceforth pay him due deference! So, it's to be called the "Schwartz Smooth Bevel" from now on....

Aaron - I'm glad you are finding the build interesting. I'm looking forward to hearing how she sounds at the end also. I have a special treat lined up for y'all for the video demo at the end.....

Steve/Tony - you guys are great! I found the bucket of kerfings in my workshop when I got over here tonight, just where Tony said they'd be - excellent! [clap]

Here's a short video of the kerfings restoration process. As you will see, they did the trick!



More later...

Cheers for now,
Dave F.

_________________
Cambrian Guitars

"There goes Mister Tic-Tac out the back with some bric-brac from the knick-knack rack"


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:11 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 pm
Posts: 2361
First name: Bryan
Last Name: Bear
City: St. Louis
State: Mo
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
[clap] [clap] [clap] After that last video, you may be my new favorite poster here at OLF! Though if you knew how much those kerfs cost, you wouldn't have been so cavalier about brushing the excess on the floor after you poured them in. . .

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 114 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com