Official Luthiers Forum!
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/

Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10132&t=35013		 Page 2 of 2
Author:  nyazzip [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
regarding the headstock: i don't know what the pros say(because i don't have any books), but i took apart a junky set of classical tuners and used the plate as a drill guide. the holes in the plate are fairly small, like 3/8" or so, but good enough for "pilot" holes. i measured them to verify they are exactly 35mm apart, so there are no surprises when i go to order tuners.
anyway, i:
1)screwed the tuner plate onto a SQUARED block of maple.
2)drilled the 3 holes with my junky press
3)unscrewed the plate, then drilled again with a large "full sized" bit
4)now this block became my drill guide, so i clamped the maple block with 3 big holes in it, to the side of the headstock, and drilled the roller holes.

worked pretty well for a low tech cheap solution. i figure the maple drill guide ought to be good for a few uses before the holes get too sloppy
Author:  Florentin [ Fri Feb 03, 2012 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
I found a broken headstock in the garage, with tuners on it.
I used to own an online retail business (music merchandise) and have some returns.
This guitar was damaged by the fine people at the UPS :mrgreen:
Nothing fancy - a chinese-made Lucida LK2, retailing at about $85.
Here is the headstock...

Image


Took the tuners out and I am going to use them to save on money...

Image


I cut one side of the old headstock, to make a small "jig", in hopes to keep the holes spaced out correctly and also as straight as possible...

Image

Image


This is after drilling the holes. I tried to keep the hole on a straight line by not touching the edge of the jig hole with the bid...

Image


I also drilled some holes on top of the headstock to help me carve out the hollow section.
It is clear that I do not have the right tools, but I have seen this way done before, somewhere...

Image


This is much harder than I thought.
The tuners seem to fit into the holes, but I have to enlarge the inside of the hole, so the knobs can turn more easily.
The of the holes at the bottom are a bit too far apart, but I think I can adjust that also. At least I hope so.

Also, it appears to me that the headstock itself is too long the way I sketched it on paper and on the wood.
I may have to move the top of the head (crown?) lower, so it looks more proportional. No?

Thanks for looking.
Author:  nyazzip [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 2:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
the headstock shape looks fine to me. i would have clamped the "drill guide" firmly on to the headstock, you don't want it to move even a hair till all 3 are done. hopefully everything will line up ok
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 5:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Didn't I tell you to taper the headstock first? It doesn't look like the current side of the headstock is parallel with your intended final shape.
Author:  Florentin [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Alexandru, I didn't understand your entire message.
I even forgot what the scarf joint is when you first said "why did you do your scarf like that?", and had to go back and read up on it.

I am like the Kung Fu Panda... when he said "is there a Level 0?"
When he was finished with the first training, his master said "yes, there is now a Level 0"

This neck was probably doomed when I put the scarf on the wrong side of the turn.
I still want to go through with it though, to learn out of these mistakes.

I have a close friend who builds stairs.
I already asked him to cut me some neck blanks out of whatever hardwood he uses: cedar, cherry, mahogany...
It looks like I'll have to start this neck over, but first I want to see how far I can go with it. Maybe it can still work.

Thanks for the help so far!
Author:  nyazzip [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
oops, i didn't think about taper. now you're doomed i'd say, unless you were willing to plug with oak dowels....
Author:  Florentin [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Well, I knew from the start that some things will go bad during the process.
In no way do I expect to finish my first guitar with no goofs. That would be non-realistic.

I will still carve out the inside grooves, and whatever else I can do on it, just for the practice.
And I will start on a new neck as well.
Author:  truckjohn [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
I think it's time to go and get yourself a book...

I think you need a book that is very clear about how to do each step - 1 step at a time... In this respect - I like Cumpiano & Natleson's "Guitar Making, Tradition and Technology" book... If you just follow the book step by step - you will end up with a guitar where everything lines up properly... Honestly - 99.9% of the battle is "Cabinetry"... My own feeling is that their top bracing is a bit stout... but that is also largely dependent on the top wood you use...

Anyway - your neck is FAR from scrap... Plug those holes with some wooden dowels and just re-drill once you have tapered your peghead.... Whatever mistake you have made will be hidden under the tuner - and will not hurt the instrument structurally...

Keep on going - try not to get discouraged.... You are doing fine!

Thanks
Author:  Trevor Gore [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Florentin, Don't worry about the scarf. It's the wrong way round for convention but works just fine. Check this:

download/file.php?id=30181&mode=view

The rest of my build thread (and why I did this one that way) is here:

viewtopic.php?f=10132&t=35192

I'm pleased to see you're having fun! But relax, it's only a guitar!
Author:  Florentin [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
truckjohn wrote:
I think it's time to go and get yourself a book...

I like Cumpiano & Natleson's "Guitar Making, Tradition and Technology" book...


I own three guitar building books:
- Sloane
- Bogdanovich
- Cumpiano & Natleson

I've read through each one almost entirely.
Of course, it's one thing to read and another to learn a skill.

I struggled with the idea of using a combination of the books for my first build.
I felt it'd be much better to go one route, and look for alternatives later.

I decided to use Sloane's book because it is the most straightforward one - that's how I felt after reading through them anyways.
Also, I believe the Cumpiano book does not use a spanish heel neck. I am away from the book and can't remember for sure though. I could be wrong.

Thanks for the comments and the encouragement.

It sure is easier to play a guitar than to build one!
Author:  Florentin [ Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Trevor Gore wrote:
Florentin, Don't worry about the scarf. It's the wrong way round for convention but works just fine.
I'm pleased to see you're having fun! But relax, it's only a guitar!


Thanks for the links and also for the comments.
I appreciate it.
Author:  Alexandru Marian [ Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
You can still use it, just redraw the final head shape to be parallel with the current sides.
Author:  Florentin [ Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
will try.
thanks Alexandru.
Author:  John A [ Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
I would plug the tuner holes, then taper the headstock, then redrill the holes. You need to clamp your guide to the head stock before you drill, otherwise, the scotch tape will move on you and your holes will not match up.
Cumpiano does use a Spanish heel - and he explains the process to cut this all out pretty well.

Before I started my first - I went through the Cumpiano book and wrote down each step I had to perform, and thought it through carefully. If you put the tuners in the holes you drilled,, you will see the problem, just imagine what the tuners would look like when you taper your head stock - the barrels will all be angled towards the nut.

PS - I made three necks for my first, and use one of them. Then for my second I made two necks and I am using one. Hopefully on my third I will get down to making a neck once, just the way I like it.
Author:  Florentin [ Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
Thank you John!
Author:  John A [ Thu Feb 23, 2012 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Florentin's Challenge Build - Classical
So how is your progress ?
Page 2 of 2 All times are UTC - 5 hours
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/