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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Mine is going to be something I've been thinking about for a while - a fretless nylon string guitar. I'm not sure if I am going to set it up like a classical or a flamenco.

My original inspiration was the oud, but here is a good discussion of the guitar version:

http://classicalguitar.delcamp.net/view ... ess+guitar

Wood choices not made yet. I am going to use pegs (in keeping as much with the oud flavor as with flamenco, and I have a slightly oudish headstock in mind). I'm shooting for a price point of $50, not counting strings and probably nut and saddle. It does need to be a good fingerboard, though, as I'm guessing it actually takes a little more of a beating than one with frets does.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:22 pm 
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Sounds like a winner to me . [:Y:]

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:45 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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That sounds like a very cool idea, Jim!
I pulled the frets out of electric I made,
and didn't like the fretless deal,
but, a nylon string would probably sound great.
Check out David Lindley playing the oud.


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:25 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I'm struggling over how to go more local for a top. I have WRC tops that I've resawn from construction lumber - fit's the bill in terms of cost (and some very nice tops too), but not exactly mid-atlantic or northeast. Red Spruce is quasi-local, but not cheap of course. I've seen really nice hemlock standing in places like Longwood Gardens, but the Borgs around here seem to have a contractual obligation to only stock wood that has at least two knots/foot - I'm guessing loggers can't get their hands on much of anything worthwhile.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:57 am 
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[quote]I'm struggling over how to go more local for a top. I have WRC tops that I've resawn from construction lumber - fit's the bill in terms of cost (and some very nice tops too), but not exactly mid-atlantic or northeast.[quote]

Thats why i decided to go continential usa . To hard for some to get what they need in tighter regions.

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:41 pm 
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Jim, are you going with a pickup on it? Without amplification they aren't far from the acoustic qualities of an electric guitar.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:37 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Alexandru Marian wrote:
Jim, are you going with a pickup on it? Without amplification they aren't far from the acoustic qualities of an electric guitar.


Hi Alex,

Bridge placement and string height above soundboard at bridge aren't going to change relative to a regular classical or flamenco, so what will be different in terms of volume/efficiency?

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:56 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I've handled one guitar from which the owner pulled the frets and filled the slots. He tested it one hour then brought it here for a refret :) It didn't have sustain and the volume was greatly reduced. I noticed the same with my guitars where I would string it up before fretting out of unrestrained curiosity to hear how it sounds (I would use a filed-barbs fret to hear the upper trebles)
I guess you can make it and cut for frets later if you don't like it. It's not nearly as convenient as cutting them on the free FB but it can be done.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 5:03 pm 
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Cool! Can't wait to see how this turns out [:Y:] .
You could cut fret slots and glue in contrasting veneer with hide glue (or another glue that can be undone) to make fret lines. That way if you decide you want frets you can take out the veneer and fret it. Just a thought...


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 6:11 pm 
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Jim Kirby wrote:
Alexandru Marian wrote:
Jim, are you going with a pickup on it? Without amplification they aren't far from the acoustic qualities of an electric guitar.


Hi Alex,

Bridge placement and string height above soundboard at bridge aren't going to change relative to a regular classical or flamenco, so what will be different in terms of volume/efficiency?

The difference is that one end of the string is anchored by a soft fleshy finger, plus probably rattling against the fingerboard a bit, limiting the maximum amplitude. If I was going to do a fretless guitar, I'd at least make the action a lot higher so the string angles up from the fingerboard more sharply.

But in general, it seems like a pretty hopeless instrument design. Guitars are energy-challenged enough even with frets so there's not much lost from that end of the string. Works on violins because the bow is a continuous energy supply. Of course, plucking a violin does make a pretty cool sound, so maybe it's not entirely hopeless... but still a limited use instrument, not so good for soloing.

But another idea I've been pondering is a bowed guitar :) Or rather, a flat topped, glued bridge viola (I'd probably use normal viola strings on it). Of course, the challenge is to get enough clearance for the bow, without putting too much torque on the bridge. Tempting to do it instead of my planned harp ukulele for the build challenge.

Anyway, good luck on the build, hope it turns out satisfactory :)


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:22 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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OK, continuing on with this, how could the unfretted guitar possibly be less efficient than an oud, with its bridge placed far off of the vibrational center of the soundboard? They aren't as concert hall-filling as regular guitars, but they are certainly loud enough at close quarters.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:25 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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DennisK wrote:

But another idea I've been pondering is a bowed guitar :) Or rather, a flat topped, glued bridge viola (I'd probably use normal viola strings on it). Of course, the challenge is to get enough clearance for the bow, without putting too much torque on the bridge. Tempting to do it instead of my planned harp ukulele for the build challenge.

Anyway, good luck on the build, hope it turns out satisfactory :)


You could still get the clearance with the big waist indentations as on regular bowed instruments. If you built an internal frame, maybe you could make the waist indents really extreme.

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:30 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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muskr@ wrote:
Cool! Can't wait to see how this turns out [:Y:] .
You could cut fret slots and glue in contrasting veneer with hide glue (or another glue that can be undone) to make fret lines. That way if you decide you want frets you can take out the veneer and fret it. Just a thought...


Or maybe teflon strips! Boy wouldn't that be lack of faith :shock:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 8:55 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Hey, it's nice to have some markers,
even on a fretless.
DAMHIKT.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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PUNT!

This is an official punt announcement. Just picked up another outside job plus a few other priority things. Not going to get a voluntary guitar build worked on this spring.

Have fun!

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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:17 pm 
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Jim Kirby wrote:
PUNT!

This is an official punt announcement. Just picked up another outside job plus a few other priority things. Not going to get a voluntary guitar build worked on this spring.

Have fun!



wow7-eyes AWWWWWWWWWWW Darn . Well im sure it was needed . Im gonna keep your name on the list just in case things turn around . June 1st is a long way off . [:Y:]

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:21 pm 
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Throwing in the towel? Already? laughing6-hehe

Shoot... Build a cigar box guitar or something really fun and quick...

I have this idea rolling around in the back of my brain for a "Properly built" cigar box guitar... Something worthwhile to play both sound and volume wise.... that doesn't sound like a wet 2x4 with a couple pieces of rusty fence wire nailed to it....

Thanks


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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 11:46 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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truckjohn wrote:
Throwing in the towel? Already? laughing6-hehe

Shoot... Build a cigar box guitar or something really fun and quick...

I have this idea rolling around in the back of my brain for a "Properly built" cigar box guitar... Something worthwhile to play both sound and volume wise.... that doesn't sound like a wet 2x4 with a couple pieces of rusty fence wire nailed to it....

Thanks


Nah, way too much going on - I have two classicals in the works that are already spoken for, and just started a real flamenco (i.e., with frets [:Y:] ) and have to finish everything by the end of April, when I leave for Spain for 2+ months (so June 1 didn't help anyway.)

Now, maybe if it were washtub bass? I could probably manage one string and no woodworking :lol:

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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2012 12:04 pm 
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Quote:
Now, maybe if it were washtub bass? I could probably manage one string and no woodworking laughing6-hehe


But could you do it for under $150 ? laughing6-hehe

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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