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 Post subject: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:18 am 
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Cocobolo
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I've seen some discussion on various side materials, like several people using walnut and maple, but are there any indigenous soft woods that would be good for tops for those of us in the center of these great united states? idunno

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:23 am 
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crazicarl wrote:
I've seen some discussion on various side materials, like several people using walnut and maple, but are there any indigenous soft woods that would be good for tops for those of us in the center of these great united states? idunno

Good Question

well you have the entire united states to pull from " region " soooooooo think broader . I would have to believe there are some redwoods that would be available .. No ?

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:06 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Yeah, but I'm in Oklahoma and I've been turning it over in my head since the first on what kind of "local" soft wood I could use. I mean there's poplar and doug fir, but I don't think I could find stuff the right size . . . I guess I could go plumb wild and glue several pieces of poplar together for a top . . . it would probably sound like k-rap, though. Might be better off using local plywood. laughing6-hehe

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 12:29 pm 
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crazicarl wrote:
Yeah, but I'm in Oklahoma and I've been turning it over in my head since the first on what kind of "local" soft wood I could use. I mean there's poplar and doug fir, but I don't think I could find stuff the right size . . . I guess I could go plumb wild and glue several pieces of poplar together for a top . . . it would probably sound like k-rap, though. Might be better off using local plywood. laughing6-hehe




LOL well it wouldnt be a challenge ...... without a challenge ..

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:28 pm 
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poplar is no good, not stiff at all and not resonant at all. i would think it would have to be a quarter inch thick to hold up under tension !
i'd say any conifer at all would be the best choice for a top, in the USA.
but seriously, i thought the "local tree species" in OK was tallgrass
:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:42 pm 
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Got any local spruces?? Doug Fir will also work, though it's a bit heavy.


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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:27 pm 
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As far as tall grass grows, you know I was thinking about making a nice weave for the top . . . laughing6-hehe

But local spruce? I don't know. We have a lot of trees, just not a lot of big softwoods. I have a huge piece of elm, but I'm pretty sure it's only going to be good for turning. Who knows. I'll probably buy "locally" from LMI.

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 05, 2012 10:44 pm 
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Hmmm.... Pine, cedar, juniper, cypress, hemlock, tamarack, and fir are all good candidates.... You are likely to find them in some form or another in the hardware store.... White pine would probably work out pretty well - and you could get a piece off the side of the road when someone in town cuts down a pine tree....

How about finding a nice looking cedar post in the lumber yard - split it down the middle to verify runout... and then resaw for a multi-piece top....

You could always do a 16 piece top by resawing a flat cut 2x4.... (If you really want a picture of the 2 16 pc tops I made during my jointing practice sessions... I will post them.)

I think anything with needles on it could be made to work..... If you can't find that - how about Pawlonia - it's a fast growing tree with those giant, elephant ear leaves and pretty flowers in the spring....

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:05 am 
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How about something like the Taylor W65?

http://www.taylorguitars.com/Guitars/Archive/Older/archive/models.asp?id=w65

Softwoods for tops are overrated anyways... beehive


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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:38 pm 
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Here's a link to all native plants of Oklahoma.
http://www.biosurvey.ou.edu/shrub/comndx.htm

Here's a link to a bunch of links to lists and info on native plants by state.
http://gardeninglaunchpad.com/native.html

You're right in that there aren't a lot of choices for native Oklahoma conifers. But you do have a cypress (bald) and a pine (Loblolly) that seem to grow more than large enough to yield a top.

I have no idea what a red cedar top would sound like, but then experimenting wouldn't be a bad thing to do either.
Someone has surely built with it before. You could search this site, find out who, and ask what it sounded like.

Good luck,

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:20 pm 
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I don't think you have to restrict yourself to your local state (although you surely can). I think this is a continent local thing, or am I mistaken? North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Australia/NZ, etc ?

Edited: Typo

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Last edited by Jim_H on Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Jim_H wrote:
I don't think you have to restrict yourself to your local state (although you surely can). I think this is a content local thing, or am I mistaken? North America, South America, Europe, Asia, Australia/NZ, etc ?



correct ! Orig I had thought about tighter reigons , but thats to hard

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The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/


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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:07 pm 
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I meant to say 'contentinent' local in my last post.

Thanks for the clarification Wud

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2012 10:02 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Yeah, I'm not too worried about it, just thinking. I mean, I would like to keep it as local as possible, but say I felled a loblolly pine that was big enough, can I use the green wood? I mean, I figure it would have to dry for . . . what a good six months and then use it only if it hasn't warped too badly.

truckjohn, I would be interested to see the 16pc top you mentioned. I wonder with that kind of lamination what it would sound like and if you could skimp a little on the bracing because of the strength of the glue joints . . . that might be something . . .

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Well.. I wonder too.. I really want to try them out on a guitar - just to see how it sounds... My prediction is that it would sound like a guitar... but it would probably look kinda funny because I wasn't paying attention to the direction of runout....

Even if you didn't want to use them in an instrument - they make great practice... You can get all the 2x4 scraps you want out of construction dumpsters....

Anyway - here you go!
Attachment:
Jointing practice 1.JPG

Attachment:
Jointing practice 2.JPG


Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:13 pm 
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Your local 2 by 4's are better than ours. Anything around here is just a display of knots.

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 12:29 am 
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Cocobolo
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I second that Kirby. Went down to the local Lowes today and perused the woods they had. I found one piece that I hope to use, but as far as the pine and fir . . . geeze, you'd think they be selling them by the knot and not the foot.

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:24 am 
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Is this a one time build or a long term thing.?Going to lowes isn't local. What is your mission??

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:36 am 
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You want to know what's a challenge?

Try living on one of the densest populated country in the world, with an area of West Virginia but the population of California, with absolutely NO logging or forestry industry, and little demand for wood or DIY in general.

The only wood available are only about 1" wide, and very soft and porous, from the Philippines, this is what is available from hardware stores or mom and pop lumber stores... they only cater to the 90% and not the 1%, so finding stuff for the 1% is next to impossible.

Only time I managed to get wood is from suppliers with very high turnaround time (takes about 1 month to get a quote, because the guy would take 2 weeks to answer an email) and the wood is very poor quality and expensive.

Local wood in Taiwan isn't possible unless I illegally cut down a tree in the city, or the forest and season it myself. Logging has been illegal for over 20 years here.

I can't even get mines started because I am having trouble finding wood at all. If worst comes to worst I will order some indian rosewood and just build from that, because that qualifies as indigenous from where I am at.

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 2:00 pm 
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Maybe you should expand into the wood import business ? :D

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 Post subject: Re: Indigenous tops?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 6:59 am 
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Ummm ... Your American Options include Sitka Spruce, Englemann Spruce, Adirondak Spruce, Western Red Cedar and Redwood. There may be others I'm not aware of, but these varieties cover about 95% of the guitars ever made.

Good Luck!

Jeff


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