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Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10123&t=53267		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
Hi Folks,

I am trying to figure out how I would execute the arched tops that Gretsch used for their guitars, from the Solid Body Duo Jet (Chambered Mahogany, with pressed maple laminated top) to the hollow body 6120's/Country Gents/Etc. Any ideas on how to pull that off? I suppose I could always carve the top, but that would take way more time - trying to see if anybody already steams arches the maple lam?

Anyway, any thoughts welcome!

Thanks!
Glenn
Author:  Freeman [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 12:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
That is a real dilemma for someone wanting to build a laminated arched top - the infrastructure laminate and form the tops (and sides and back) is somewhat beyond the average home builder. I cheated, there was an individual who had gone thru all the work of making the molds and setting up the vacuum bagging to do this (I believe that Gibson used a big old hydraulic press for theirs) and was amortizing the cost by selling top and back sets. I bought three - two double cut (ES335 style) and one single cut (hollowbody jazz guitar) and built them up.

He was getting out of the business at the time and offered to sell me the molds - I considered but declined. Forumite Ken McKay at upnorthstrings.com was selling tops and backs at one time, I don't know if he still is. I could go back thru my records and see if I can find the contact info for the guy I bought mine from.
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
I made a form and used it in a vacuum bag to make laminated maple plates. I carved the form from MDF and then made a matching top piece from fiberglass. It was quite a bit of work for a single guitar, but it was fun and educational. I have detailed descriptions somewhere over at the MIMF.

Actually carving a top from spruce does not take that much time. Much less than the process I outlined above.
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
Thanks Freeman!

There is a guy on ebay, Himonwry who sells New Old Stock Maple pressed tops from Circa 1980 Gretsch. He has the large ones, for Country Get, White Falcon, etc. I had bough t a few - prices very reasonable. Evidently, at one time he had NOS Duo Jet tops, and others - I guess I found him too late :-).

Thanks Barry! I am wondering if I do go the carve route (ha, no pun intended), an i better off doing a maple top as opposed to spruce? I'll check MIMF to see if I can find your threads (although, I haven't been there in a long time, and have to figure out my login lol).
I'll try to contact Ken, and see if he still sells tops/backs.

My Goal is to make a Duo Jets, 6120, and a Country Gent as I have always Loved the Gretsch sound. Building the jogs to press the maple however, may be beyond my allotted time I have - meaning, I barely have time to build :-). I currently build Acoustic guitars, but have made a couple of Teles.

Glenn
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
Maple is a LOT HARDER to carve than spruce. My comparison is the difference between concrete and soap. That is not a lot of exaggeration.

Here is a link to one of the MIMF discussions that includes a lot of stuff from Ken McKay.

http://www.mimf.com/old-lib/laminated_archtop_plates.htm
Author:  Chris Pile [ Mon Jun 01, 2020 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
Quote:
There is a guy on ebay, Himonwry


I have purchased items from that seller before.... If you like his stuff, fine - but he packed my items poorly, and one of them broke in three pieces. He tried to claim that I did it to get a refund, but I pointed out the damage on the boxes, and said if I wanted a complete refund - why didn't I break all of them? He had no good response, but finally gave me a partial refund on the item. I repaired it, but I shouldn't have had to do that.
Author:  Gregory03 [ Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
Barry Daniels wrote:
Maple is a LOT HARDER to carve than spruce. My comparison is the difference between concrete and soap. That is not a lot of exaggeration.

Here is a link to one of the MIMF discussions that includes a lot of stuff from Ken McKay.

http://www.mimf.com/old-lib/laminated_archtop_plates.htmtransfers reims


you are absolutely right, these are two very different things.
()Thank you very much for the link
Author:  Glenn LaSalle [ Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
Barry Daniels wrote:
Maple is a LOT HARDER to carve than spruce. My comparison is the difference between concrete and soap. That is not a lot of exaggeration.

Here is a link to one of the MIMF discussions that includes a lot of stuff from Ken McKay.

http://www.mimf.com/old-lib/laminated_archtop_plates.htm

True. But I was thinking for the Duo jet type guitar - chambered solid body - which would be done like a les paul, only less arch

Glenn
Author:  Barry Daniels [ Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
How much less arch?
Author:  Freeman [ Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
Glenn, I am not very knowledgeable about the various models of Gretsch guitars - I've had a few on my bench but honestly couldn't tell you the models or how they were built. What I can tell you is that I have built three guitars using pressed laminated plates - two were ES335 style with the kerfed center block - what I would call "semi solid" or "semi hollow" body. Those involve somehow sourcing the plates - either buy them or make them and then building what ever kind of internal structure is necessary

Attachment:
IMG_3219-1.jpg


I also built a single cutaway deep bodied guitar with laminated top and back - what I would call a "hollow body" electric guitar (it has two spruce runners supporting the pickups but uses a tail piece and floating bridge). It looks like all the jazz archtops and while it has an "acoustic" sound it isn't really designed to be played unplugged. I could show pictures but I don't think that is what you are interested in

Last, and far from least, I have built a couple of "solid body" carved topped instruments (think LP) with maple caps, One of these was chambered - I now chamber all my "solid body" guitar mainly for weight relief. It kind of sounds to me like that is what the Duo Jet is but I've never looked in side of one. Doing a carved top guitar is not trivial but it certainly eliminates all the issues of pressing and laminating.

This is Les Paul shaped and has mild top carving (I was liminted by plate thickness). Body has the center block for the bridge and pickups but is a full pound and a half lighter than my solid body LP clone

Attachment:
IMG_1947.JPG


I think if you want to be completely accurated to the Gretsch you will need to do more research but there are lots of options to build guitar of this general style
Author:  Freeman [ Fri Jun 05, 2020 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Steam Arch Maple Tops ala Gretsch?
If you are talking about a carved topped guitar with "less arch" than a Lester, the one in my last picture use a top plate that was 1/2 inch thick (LP's are usually 5/8). I brought the binding down a little more below the seam but still ended up with a carved top that is not as arched as a LP. Does mean the neck geometry changes, we know how to deal with that.
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