Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:20 am


All times are UTC - 5 hours





Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Newbie Sanding question
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:14 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
So, I've stumbled into this luthier thing from a guitar players perspective with very little wood working experience. I've been hand sanding everything because sand paper is relatively cheap and easy to use. Also it seems like the best way to sand with the grain which seems important. But I'm getting a little tired of sanding and I've seen a lot of guys online use random orbital sanders. So is this an acceptable sanding method? It seems like you would get all kinds of scratches across the grain, random or not that's bad isn't it? Can you use a ROS through all the grits and come up with something that is ready to be finished? If so, are there recommendations on specific tools or how much to spend? I hate buying cheap disposable tools, but also don't want to spend an unnecessary amount of money.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:47 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:14 am
Posts: 49
First name: Garrett
Last Name: Colllier
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I've been where you are and I do not miss it at all. I have only built a couple guitars now, but I knew after completing my first one that I would not continue to hand sand the plates. My second guitar was made out of Katalox. The back plate only had to be brought down a little bit to hit the proper thickness. I timed it. 13 hours with a sanding block. I used 80 grit most of the time.

I have a ROS and palm sander and they are less strenuous than hand sanding for sure. Though, maybe its me, but it still seems like it takes forever using those. Also the noise gets to me after a while and they really can throw a bit of dust too.

Hand planes might be an option to look in to. Maybe a No. 4 or 5 Stanley? I have never been good at using them, though I continue to buy them :shock: . You can find them relatively cheap at flea markets and sometimes ebay or craigslist.

Craigslist was my saving grace in the end though. I scored a Ryobi 16-32 drum sander for $125. That, of course, would be my highest recommendation, but they are normally dramatically more than that which is often a problem. Though that 13 hours of back sanding could be completed in a couple minutes without breaking a sweat.

I'm sure someone way more knowledgeable and helpful will step in and say something.


Good luck!


Last edited by apostleguitarcompany on Wed May 30, 2018 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.


These users thanked the author apostleguitarcompany for the post: Conor_Searl (Wed May 30, 2018 8:59 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:56 pm 
Offline
Mahogany
Mahogany
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:14 am
Posts: 49
First name: Garrett
Last Name: Colllier
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Just saw this was posted in Electric guitars and basses. Sorry, don't know if I will have been of any help at all, as I have no experience there.

I have noticed some noticeable scratches for those types of sanders if I press too hard or lift up on corner of the sander and cause the opposing end to drive into the wood. You could always start out with course paper on the sander and work you way to a finer grit. Then switch over to hand sanding towards the final grits.



These users thanked the author apostleguitarcompany for the post: Conor_Searl (Wed May 30, 2018 8:58 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 8:57 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 3227
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
You have to be real careful with a ROS on a guitar, especially the soft top. It can be done, but you can also create an uneven surface due to the different density of the spruce compared to hardwood inlays, purflings, etc. I have one but still do most of my sanding by hand. Might use the ROS on rosewood back though.

Sand up through the grits to get rid of visible orbital sanding scratches. The ROS will not work very well on guitar sides or necks, however, I am sure that there are people on here that will say that it can be done. I just don't think it is ideal.



These users thanked the author Barry Daniels for the post: Conor_Searl (Wed May 30, 2018 8:59 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 9:09 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 2124
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
I use a scraper and hand sand.



These users thanked the author Freeman for the post: Conor_Searl (Wed May 30, 2018 10:05 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:08 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
Freeman wrote:
I use a scraper and hand sand.


For solid body electrics too?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 10:09 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 2246
Location: Seattle WA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I've used a cheapo ros. Now I have a Festool. It's like a pinto or Porsche. But the pinto will get you there. They come in different orbits and at least the high-end ones tell you how big. It's like 2 3 5 or 7 mm, the bigger orbit being more aggressive. Ideally it would be nice to have 2.

They can work fine if you work out your system. I like to hand sand with the grain in the end.



Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

_________________
Pat



These users thanked the author Pmaj7 for the post: Conor_Searl (Wed May 30, 2018 11:17 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 11:24 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
pat macaluso wrote:
They come in different orbits and at least the high-end ones tell you how big. It's like 2 3 5 or 7 mm, the bigger orbit being more aggressive. Ideally it would be nice to have 2. Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk


Would this also be the "amount of eccentricity"? (Makita's words...)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:24 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:50 pm
Posts: 2246
Location: Seattle WA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Apparently, yes.

Sent from my SM-N910T using Tapatalk

_________________
Pat


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:43 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 1161
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Are you trying to thickness a plate by hand or are you preparing for applying a finish?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



These users thanked the author rlrhett for the post: SnowManSnow (Thu May 31, 2018 10:14 pm)
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 8:51 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 9:34 am
Posts: 3081
Used a D/A all the time. It takes years of skill to use it properly for some tasks like sanding sides. If you are finish sanding wet, you need to use an air powered D/A. The smaller the orbit the better
You must go through the grits. I went to 220 before filling, and sanding finish to 2000 grit before buffing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:46 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 11:09 pm
Posts: 870
Location: Cowichan Valley, BC, Canada
First name: Conor
Last Name: Searl
City: Duncan
State: British Columbia
Zip/Postal Code: V9L 2E5
Country: Canada
Status: Semi-pro
rlrhett wrote:
Are you trying to thickness a plate by hand or are you preparing for applying a finish?


I'm thinking for sanding electric guitar bodies, getting them ready for finishing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:49 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2008 12:17 pm
Posts: 1161
City: Escondido
State: CA
Zip/Postal Code: 92029
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
In that case I’m afraid there really is no substitute for hand sanding. Don’t be afraid to do the real work with corse paper and a semi rigid sanding block (120 with a block of rigid insulation foam, for example) until everything is flat and level. Then quickly work through the grits just to take out scratches. Don’t try to level the terrain with fine paper.

I joke with students that the number one woodworking skill you need for lutherie is patience.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 1:19 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Apr 11, 2018 11:46 am
Posts: 155
Location: Heaven and Hell (Florida)
First name: Julie
Last Name: Moriarty
City: Punta Gorda
State: FL
Zip/Postal Code: 33950
Country: US
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
pat macaluso wrote:
I've used a cheapo ros. Now I have a Festool. It's like a pinto or Porsche.

Agree totally. I spent 20 years using a 5" Bosch ROS then one day broke down and bought a 6" Festool (and dust collector). I now have 4 different Festool sanders that I use all the time. They changed not only the way I worked with wood but my attitude about sanding. I used to hate it. Now it's almost enjoyable (if that is even possible.)

I have used the Festool 150/3 ROS for both top and bottom plates w/o any issues. I sand with 220 after the plate comes out of the drum sander then move to 320.

_________________
Julie Moriarty
http://JulimorCreations.com


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com