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 Post subject: Tangerine Flake Finish
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Walnut
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New guy here!

So I thought about doing a kit tele or Jaguar and finishing in this Tangerine Flake finish:
Attachment:
image3.jpg

Attachment:
Image.jpg




Where is the best place to read up on doing this kind of finish? Is it unrealistic to try and do this in my garage?

Thanks!
Jason


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Koa
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Hi Jason and welcome. The simple statement is that most solid colors which includes metallic and metal flake finishes are realm of automotive finishes - not normally the type of thing that most of us do. Your best bet would be to study the work of custom car, hot rod and motorcycle painters.

I have a very good friend who is one of the best custom motorcycle painters in the world (he has traded custom bike paint jobs for vintage guitars). If you scroll down to the bottom of this page you'll see a few guitars that he has painted

http://www.trickpaint.com/galleries/helmets.shtml

Here is one with a bunch of 'flake in it.

Image

Google "metal flake paint" and follow the links. Can you do it in your garage? I know that there are rattle cans of metal flake, I seriously doubt that you would get the results in your pictures. The only way to find out is to get one, practice on scrap (which you should always do with any finish) and see if you are happy before you shoot the guitar. I do know that the pros use two part finishes applied with a gun in a spray booth


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Koa
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Jason. I thought about this for a couple of hours and want to make a couple of comments. Please do not take offense at what I'm going to say, but if you have to ask, as your first question, on an internet forum how to do a procedure that is really pretty advanced them probably it isn't for you to do.

I know the steps to do a metal flake paint job and I have the equipment and probably could do one if I really wanted to. However I also know that any finish is the hardest part of building a guitar - all of us part time builders struggle to get a finish close to what a Chinese guitar factory does hundreds of times each day. And if you are planning to get a tele kit and put some sort of finish like the one above on it, I think you will be very disappointed.

Follow the Youtube vids, get some metal flake paint and a few scraps of wood and give it a try. If and when you are happy with your results, then put your kit together and shoot the finish. Come back here and show it off - I'll be the first to congratulate you.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:58 am 
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Walnut
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Thanks for the feedback. I'm starting from not really know much about the subject, so at least now I have some sort of gauge that this would be a tough finish for a newbie like me. Maybe I should just start with a basic 1 tone finish.


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 12:16 pm 
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Koa
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As I said before, unfortunately finishing is one of the hardest parts to do at home and get right. We simply don't have the equipment, products and experience that the manufactures have so its really hard to get a finish that looks anywhere like a pro would do. With that said, it is possible to get a pretty nice finish if you take your time with the prep and use the right products. We can help you with that.

Here is a sparkly finished guitar http://www.mimf.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5124 Note that the builder says the finish is "Pre cat cellulose, silver metalflake over coated with tinted lacquer and the back is plain cream" - those are automotive products, he obviously knows what he is doing.

Good luck, do your research and let us help


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PostPosted: Mon Jan 29, 2018 2:52 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Hi Jason, this is really similar to a build I dreamed up, only I wanted to do a jazzmaster in green metal flake. I'm not much further along the learning curve than you are, I've finished a few guitars, but nothing I've been super happy with, and each one has been a different product. The learning curve is steep, but what I've come to realize for what its worth is there is no one way to do things, and patience is huge, in the end if it looks right it is right. Cabinet and car guys can both be a big help and are in most communities if you're looking for some face to face interaction. But then again I've also found there are some subtle differences when it comes to finishing an instrument, so tempering the advice gleaned from those conversations with stuff you find online can be really helpful.

I just finished reading Dan Erlewine's book on finishing (https://www.amazon.ca/Guitar-Finishing- ... 0977651908), and wish I had read it before starting. Again there are probably other ways of doing things, but I like how he explains the process, and then gives it you step by step. I'm a sucker for a well defined system. He also includes a ton of finishing recipes (or schedules) that start simple and get progressively more involved.


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The trick to big flake is burying it in enough clear to level and buff.

https://www.paintwithpearl.com/
This is a great source of materials and some knowledge. I use their flake. in fact I did this bass the other year with their biggest flake and some tri color pearl. Shot over a black basecoat.

Image
Image

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These users thanked the author B. Howard for the post: Durero (Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:50 pm)
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:15 pm 
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Koa
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I love the matching dots, Brian. And another set neck.....


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:16 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Freeman wrote:
I love the matching dots, Brian. And another set neck.....


Funny story about the matching dots.....My client was picking out the abalone pieces for me to cut the dots out of and said "wouldn't it be cool if the whole thing was this color?" So i mixed flake and pearl until I had a match.....It looks crazy in person lots of flash and a subtle color shift.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:36 am 
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You are THE MAN, Brian.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:18 am 
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Koa
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That looks real nice Brian. So, you would encourage Jason to give it a try?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:20 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Barry Daniels wrote:
That looks real nice Brian. So, you would encourage Jason to give it a try?

Absolutely.... It's the only way to actually learn and the materials I pointed out are not priced in the Kosmos like other national brands so there is no longer the investment of hundreds even thousands in materials to do these things. It does take a LOT of clear though....and that can add up

Big flake is actually easier than traditional metallics and pearls. Works very well with traditional auto 2K systems, use a basecoat blender/clear for the ground coat and flakes then bury in 2K until you can cut and buff.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 3:32 pm 
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Cocobolo
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I heard automotive finishes are not good for wood. Is this not true?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:12 pm 
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Quote:
I heard automotive finishes are not good for wood. Is this not true?


Finishes don't know what they are on - a Ford or a Fender.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 8:22 pm 
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So Cool. I'm in on the Metal Flake paint job too! I've been walking the fence on re-doing a Blue Sparkle 97 Fender Squier Super Sonic that a friend gave me. He got it new in 98 and totally abused the body. There is no less than 20 dings on the paint with a few being the size of a quarter.

The guitar as is would probably fetch 100 Add new pickups then 400. Sand it down and Re-Paint 800. I'm guessing?
One sold a few days ago on Reverb for $800
https://reverb.com/ca/price-guide/guide ... ue-sparkle

I just ordered this SkyDive Blue 0.025 (Big) Metal flake from here. Plus another darker Blue.
http://www.didspade.com/skydive-0-025/

Here's a few pics of the Super-Sonic. It's hard to see dings and scratches on these paint jobs.
Attachment:
ss_body.jpg


Attachment:
ss_full.jpg


Attachment:
ss_head_stock.jpg


Wish me luck. Will post in a few weeks when done.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Mahogany
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So...
Metal Flake specs. For large flake: "Best results when shot through 2.5mm spray gun or Higher." I have 2 sprayers. A 1.0mm and 2.0mm. NG.
Going to get a cheap 2.5mm on Ebay. Reviews/Comments on them are positive for Metal Flake.

Also, every youtube video I watch on this the presenters all say "Spaying Metal Flake makes an unbelievable mess of your paint area". Yikes!
I'm still going ahead :)

How are others progressing on Metal Flake?

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:26 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Rick Hubka wrote:
So...
Metal Flake specs. For large flake: "Best results when shot through 2.5mm spray gun or Higher." I have 2 sprayers. A 1.0mm and 2.0mm. NG.
Going to get a cheap 2.5mm on Ebay. Reviews/Comments on them are positive for Metal Flake.

Also, every youtube video I watch on this the presenters all say "Spaying Metal Flake makes an unbelievable mess of your paint area". Yikes!
I'm still going ahead :)

How are others progressing on Metal Flake?


If you are shooting hex cut flakes you can back down the tip size to 1.8- 2.0, the old style square cut flakes needed more aperature.

Yes, it makes a mess!! you will be cleaning for quite a while and will find flakes showing up from the first time you spray any until the end of time.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.



http://www.brianhowardguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Howard-G ... 3702413493
http://howardguitars.blogspot.com/


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:34 pm 
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Cocobolo
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B. Howard wrote:
Yes, it makes a mess!! you will be cleaning for quite a while and will find flakes showing up from the first time you spray any until the end of time.


This is not so different from having a daughter...

One of the first things I said this morning, "why is there so much glitter all over the bathroom counter?!?"


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Thanks Brian
Canceled my HVLP 2.5mm order and ordered a nicer gun with 1.8 and 1.3 needles. This really fills the gap with me now having 1.0 and 2.0.
Now the wait for supplies :)

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Rick Hubka wrote:
Thanks Brian
Canceled my HVLP 2.5mm order and ordered a nicer gun with 1.8 and 1.3 needles. This really fills the gap with me now having 1.0 and 2.0.
Now the wait for supplies :)



Same range I currently use. Only ever used the 2.5 when I was into 100% solids hi visc poly. Nasty stuff ....

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:58 pm 
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auto acrylic metallic is easy to spray - doesnt look like a string flake but a good start - in fact spraying is not that hard. practise on cardboard guitar cutouts to get your gun technique down. Not rocket science and if you can figure out how to put a guitar together you can figure out spraying

flake can be done by literally tipping dry flakes through a sieve over wet finish and brushing off the stuff that doesn't stick when the nitro has gone off. might take a few goes to get enough flake on. It does take a lot of clear to bury that flake but when sanded out and buffed it will look great.

there are heaps of posts on the TDPRI forums about home workshop flake jobs and how they were done.


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