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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 5:34 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:53 pm
Posts: 9
First name: Juergen
Last Name: Voss
Country: Germany
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi,

my name is Juergen and I´m addicted to guitars. :)
I started to think about building a guitar quite some time ago, and I finally did it. I bought a prof. kit for a classical from Madinter.com. My intention was to build it with a bolt on neck (see http://liutaiomottola.com/instruments/Cincia.htm) and the kit I wanted to buy includes a neck and a heel blank. During I already started to build a mould ...

When I received the package I found a finished neck in the classical style. I checked my order and it was my mistake, I ordered the wrong kit. Is there any way I can use (alter) this neck for the bolt construction? Or do I have to buy a neck blank

Any input is apreciated.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:19 am 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:50 am
Posts: 934
Location: Ellicott City, Md - USA
First name: John
Last Name: A
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
If you are doing a butt joint - you can simply cut the neck block off, you will then have the neck with a shaped heel. You can drive nut inserts into the heel and use the cut wood to make a neck block which you would glue to the inside of the guitar.

Or... you could just pick up some neck wood a 3/4" x 36" x 3" will get you enough for a stacked heel, neck, headstock, and neck block.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 7:59 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2013 4:41 am
Posts: 22
First name: Dave
Last Name: Sayers
City: rayne
State: essex
Zip/Postal Code: CM77 6TQ
Country: England
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Can't you return the kit?
In any case, a little research into fitting dovetail necks shows that they aren't THAT hard to do, just m,ake sure you shim it out, and leave a gap for steaming in case a neck reset is needed.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:29 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:53 pm
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First name: Juergen
Last Name: Voss
Country: Germany
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
@ John: I wasn´t sure if it´s possible to do it this way. Sounds like the easiest way.

@ Dave: Nope, noch chance to return it. By the way: it´s not a dove tail neck. It´s a classical neck where neck and neck block are one piece


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:59 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 903
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What you have bought is a classical guitar (gut or nylon string) kit. They do not have bolt on necks - almost always Spanish heel. If you want a bolt on neck steel string guitar, buy a different kit - yours will have many parts that are not compatible with steel strings. If you want a classical guitar, built the kit that you have, use a solera or mold that will handle the Spanish heel - don't try to modify it.

You can of course cut the neck off like resetting an old Yamaha, but that would be the wrong thing to do with the kit that you have.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 12:36 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:53 pm
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First name: Juergen
Last Name: Voss
Country: Germany
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
@freeman:
Yes, I know. And you´re right, normally classical guitars are not build with a bolt on neck. When I found the plans for the nylon string with bolt on neck (see: http://liutaiomottola.com/instruments/Cincia.htm) I thought it would be nice to have something which is unsual.
I have at least 2 examples for such a thing: you can find 2 classical guitars with bolt on neck on Kathy Matsushitas web site and the one from the link above.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2013 11:10 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
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First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
OK, Jurgen, I read thru the plans and what he is doing is not a bolt on in the style of the old Taylors (which is what he says) but more what we do to reset the necks on old Yamahas where we can't the the joint apart. Most bolt ons are a mortise and tenon joint with bolts to hold it together. Here is a poor picture of one that I built for a 12 string

Image

What your builder is doing is simply cutting the tenon (or in your case, the internal part of the Spanish heel slipper) off flush and putting the inserts in the neck heel itself. You could use the cut off piece for your neck block or make another one out of a hunk of mahogany. Here I'm doing that to an old Yamie - I've sawn through the dovetail and am adding the inserts to the heel. I've drilled through the neck block and wil set the neck angle by "flossing" the heel.

Image

If you have the wood working skills you can go ahead and do this yourself if you can't return the kit or get another neck for it. However, in all honesty, there are millions of classical guitars with Spanish heels - they almost never require a reset (the big advantage of a bolt on) and if you can't return it I would build what you have.

Good luck, let us know how it works out.

Edit to add, after thinking about it, I don't think you can convert a Spanish heel kit to bolt on easily. With a Spanish heel, the sides fit into slots in the side of the heel - they don't go all the way across the front of the guitar. With a normal bolt on they will touch in the center - if your sides are pre trimmed then it probably won't work.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2013 11:42 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Sat Aug 04, 2007 10:37 am
Posts: 590
Location: United States
First name: Mike
City: Fishtown
Country: USA
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
I actually looked at this kit and it has a neck and a neck block that are separate unlike the tradition style one piece neck and block assembly. It's actually a dovetail neck and not the traditional classical style neck. You would have to make a new block and cut the dovetail off but it is doable.
Image

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 9:52 am 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:53 pm
Posts: 9
First name: Juergen
Last Name: Voss
Country: Germany
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
perhaps it is better to explain what I received:
4-5mm raw blanks for top and back, the same for the sides, two blocks of spruce (to make the bracing myself), raw fingerboard, raw bridge, several peaces of 0,6mm veneer (don´t know what its good for, but in the shop it said rosewood binding, which i couldn´t find), a classical neck (almost finished)...

=> it´s not really a kit, but you get the material to build a guitar almost from scratch


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 12:06 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 903
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Jurgen wrote:

=> it´s not really a kit, but you get the material to build a guitar almost from scratch



Did you get plans and instructions?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:43 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:53 pm
Posts: 9
First name: Juergen
Last Name: Voss
Country: Germany
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Nope! I knew this before, but I didn´t expect the kit to be a "raw" kit.

That´s one of the the reasons I wanted to take the plans from the link mentioned nin the first post. To build from this "kit" will be a bigger challenge (I hope not too big)


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PostPosted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:13 am 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:46 pm
Posts: 903
First name: Freeman
Last Name: Keller
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Jurgen wrote:
Nope! I knew this before, but I didn´t expect the kit to be a "raw" kit.

That´s one of the the reasons I wanted to take the plans from the link mentioned nin the first post. To build from this "kit" will be a bigger challenge (I hope not too big)


That is what is called an "unserviced" kit - LMI and others puts together all the wood and parts that you need but doesn't do any of the work. "Serviced" kits have at least some of the work done - plates are final thickness, sides bent, fretboard slotted, maybe the rosette is installed. These tend to be the operations that require special tools or are easy to screw up (or both). In my experience plans and sometimes a video or other instructions are usually included.

http://www.lmii.com/products/mostly-woo ... ument-kits

What I am assuming from your posts is that you did not buy the kit from Mottola but want to use his plans. That would explain why your neck is wrong - as I said before most classicals use a Spanish heel and his plans are for his own design. My humble suggestions would be to either sell what you have and buy his complete kit or build a conventional classical out of what you have. There are many good plans and instructions - Cumpiano's book would be a good start as would LMI's plans for the 1937 Hauser.

Good luck


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